128 – Cardiac Nervines: Herbs for Heartache and the Cardiovascular system

Welcome to the Frontline Herbalism podcast with your host, Nicole Rose from the

Solidarity Apothecary.

This is your place for all things plants and

liberation.

Let's get started.

Hello. Welcome back to the Frontline Herbalism podcast.

I'm just gonna dive straight into the episode.

So this episode is all about cardiac nervines.

So these are herbs with an affinity for the nervous system, like via their kind of actions

on the heart and the cardiovascular system.

I end up just like, going on random tangents around my ex and heartbreak and how heartache

shows up through our daily life.

And I have a bit of a cry, which,

yeah, you know, feels a little bit embarrassing.

But I also want to just kind of like,

evident, you know, evidence how amazing plants are and how we can work with them to help us

get through difficult life experiences, like losing someone you love, for example, or

ending relationship or just, you know, navigating the grief of the world.

And, you know, I also talk about all the geeky stuff around these plants and their impact on

the blood vessels.

I really wanted to dive into a couple of them

in, like, much more detail as their kind of own things.

But, yeah, I've just, like, run out of time, sadly.

But I think, yeah, you'll still find it really interesting and just shameless.

Plug.

The herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress course

is open for enrollment as we speak.

It is ******* awesome.

Please check out the course page.

No one is turned away for lack of funds.

Please don't miss it.

If you're interested in herbalism and learning more and excited by this ****, because you are

******* welcome whatever you can or cannot financially contribute to, join it.

So, yeah, so please enjoy this episode about cardiac nerve ions.

Okay, thanks.

All right, so let's get stuck in about cardiac nervines.

And, you know, with all of these shows about nervines, like, they don't just fit neatly

into one category.

Like, a lot of the amazing plants I'm gonna

talk about also have like a nerve tonic function, for example, or a relaxant function

or even a sedative function as with linden flowers.

So it's like, yeah, like, herbs, you know, don't fit in one category.

But I do find it useful to just kind of like group them a little bit.

So as I've mentioned, cardiac nervines are herbs that have an affinity with the nervous

system through actions on the cardiovascular system.

And I'm not going to be able to talk about all of these in sort of depth, but I'm going to be

saying bits and bobs about different ones and maybe if we have time, I'll go into a couple

of them.

But the herbs in this category I would see are yarrow, hawthorn, especially.

******* love hawthorn,

motherwort, rose and linden flowers, also known as lime flowers.

So I'm going to give a kind of like rundown of how they have a kind of impact on the nervous

system.

System and.

Yeah.

And then hopefully we'll have some time to

bounce into a couple of them in more depth.

So a lot of them have this kind of like general relaxant action which I've talked

about so many times.

I don't mean relax like go lie on the sofa.

I mean relax as in,

you know, a kind of antispasmodic kind of relieving tension action and helping us

ultimately reduce activation from this intense fight or flight response to something more

relaxed like the parasympathetic rest and digest state.

So it's really about kind of activating that parasympathetic nervous system.

But the way that cardiac nervines tend to do this is often through their effect on the

blood vessels.

So kind of generally having that impact on our blood vessels that can kind of help just relax

the tension across the whole system often can like specifically act on the blood pressure.

And this is where it gets a bit like.

It's so ******* impossible to be brief with herbalism.

**** it.

But it gets a bit.

Not comp.

Yeah, I guess it gets complicated of.

I don't want to just say that all of these herbs reduce blood pressure because sometimes,

for example, a herb is like amphoteric, which means it can kind of go both ways.

But like as in, for example,

yarrow can raise.

And Hawthorne can like raise blood pressure in

some people that are experiencing low blood pressure as well as reducing high blood

pressure.

So it's not that they just like generically

reduce blood pressure.

Yeah. And likewise, like blood pressure is like quite a complicated thing that has like

all sorts of relationships to the stress response in the body and mitochondria and like

all the ******* things.

So it's kind of like.

It's just.

Yeah, yeah.

Some herbs have a real like transient effect

on blood pressure.

So for example, linden flowers,

like have a very like sedative kind of instantaneous,

calming, like hypnotic sedative effect.

And that will reduce the blood pressure, but that tends to be a kind of short term action.

Whereas something like hawthorn might not have such a strong instantaneous impact on the

blood pressure, but will ultimately support someone to reduce their blood pressure over

time.

Because Hawthorne is working really on all these other structural factors around the

health of the vasculature,

the network of blood vessels in the body.

Does that make any sense?

Oh my God, I'm going into too much detail already.

But yeah, so basically they have a kind of impact on blood pressure in different ways.

For example, hawthorn berries contain anthocyanins that relax the blood vessels and

those kind of constituents have often been extracted and used in certain blood pressure

medications and **** like this.

But yeah, a lot of the herbs, like the cardiac nervines, have like these amazing plant

chemicals called flavonoids and they really help, like, protect the kind of whole

vasculature from oxidative stress and damage.

So this is where like they're really having this like long term effect on the, on the

blood vessels.

And you know, like, it's quite, it's not

difficult to get these chemicals.

But like, I ******* love working with someone who's super ******* depleted because of

various life factors and just giving them like ******* berries, like giving them blends of

herbs with like amazing berries or roots in that are like super nutritious.

Like, you know, like our ancestors would have a massive diversity of plant chemicals in

their diets that we just don't ******* get with our kind of handful of vegetables that

are probably not ******* organic.

Like, let's, you know, give ourselves that.

So it's like,

how are we getting these kind of rich, diverse plant chemicals that have lots of like,

protective actions.

So, yeah, so anyway,

and you know, they can also, like Hawthorne especially can really help improve the like,

elasticity of the like, arteries, for example,

and just like help with this like, blood vessel integrity so that, you know, the blood

can flow really well and you know, it's often like high antioxidants and stuff.

So it's just like, yeah, just kind of like protecting the whole system from this kind of

like intense inflammation.

And you know, like, we get a lot of inflammation in our blood vessels because of

things like, I hate to say it, but like ******* smoking,

you know, and pollution and stress.

But like, it is trauma that really affects

things like this because when we are in our heightened like fight or flight state,

we're producing like so many stress hormones and then our,

you know, like our network of blood vessels are like working so hard in terms of being

like, so tense and like pumping that adrenaline around.

You know, our heart is doing so much.

Like when you're in like a fight or flight

state, like, as anyone knows, like your heart raises,

like your heart beat, like, you know, increases sometimes really ******* intensely.

You know, I've known like people that have just had such bad ******* anxiety that

they've, you know, they've had to call like ambulances out and stuff because their heart

has just gone so ******* fast.

They feel like their heart is bursting out of their ******* chest.

And obviously there's often like all sorts of other stuff going on, like anemia and like

various vitamin and mineral deficiencies and stuff.

But often it is just this like over activation of the stress response because of *******

trauma.

And so, yeah, cardiac nervines, I think, are just amazing allies at kind of like doing that

like inner work on our blood vessels.

Did anyone ever watch that, like that cartoon

when you were a kid of like the human anatomy and like you had the little guys that were

like the blood cells and they'd like move around like on ******* like not skateboards,

but like the ones that float.

Anyway, whenever I think about herbs having an effect on the blood vessels, I always think of

that show.

We used to like watch it.

Cause it was always on at like five in the morning and my mum would have to get up,

so she like became a mental health nurse when I was a bit older.

And so we'd get like donked in the neighbor's house and they would just put us in front of

the TV and then go back to bed and I would just watch this like anatomy show.

It's like cartoon anyway.

But yeah, that's what makes me think of blood

vessels.

They often have an impact on cholesterol in the bloodstream and the liver.

And you know, like cholesterol is like again, a very complicated thing that capitalism has

liked to kind of like commodify and has like skewed us and our understanding of like fat

and like the necessity of like healthy fats in the diet and oh my God,

that's another side rant.

But yeah, basically a lot of the cardiac

nervines do have a kind of impact on all this like metabolic stuff as well.

And you know, the, the amount of kind of different types of fat in the bloodstream and

things.

So in terms of like good cholesterol and

quote, unquote, bad cholesterol and like.

Yeah, so.

All right, so a lot of the cardiac nervines

also like specifically help the heart with like circulation within the heart with cond.

Such as angina, for example.

And yeah, can, you know, like herbs like motherwort are kind of like recognized as

having these cardiotonic properties.

So they help with kind of like people that are

struggling with.

I Don't want to say abnormal, but with kind of like differences in their heart activity,

rhythm and you know, I guess I should preface that.

Cardiac stuff is like no joke, right? So like any like big, big red flags, like I

want you to call one one or I want you to go to hospital, like you can't around if you

think someone's, you know, having a heart attack or like, you know, if anyone presents

to me with certain cardiac related symptoms,

like I'm always like covering my bases, making sure that they're going back to the doctor

with like certain things to ask or for certain blood tests or certain investigations.

But yeah, when someone has kind of like gone through a lot of that diagnostic stuff and

needs kind of support and you know, we can address things like very holistically, like

looking at, you know, issues like anemia and stuff or long Covid or things that are like

often having this kind of impact on the car.

On the car, on the heart and the cardiovascular system.

So they can have this like amazing impact on the heart itself.

They can also help where there's this kind of like venous insufficiency, for example,

using like circulatory stimulants, where there is kind of like inadequate kind of blood flow.

Like for example, with hemorrhoids.

I mean, don't get me started on hemorrhoids

and like gut bacteria.

I think there's like a whole other axis there that people don't think about.

I don't think it's just about circulation to the area.

I think it's like an expression of disruption in the ecology of the gut.

That is my theory anyway.

But yeah, so herbs can really support people with that kind of like.

Yeah, that like circulatory kind of insufficiency.

I ******* hate that word, but you know what I mean?

Okay, so yeah, so that's the kind of like, I don't want to say like the biomedical, but

like that's some of the things that cardio cardiac nervines can kind of offer to like the

cardiovascular system in general.

But if we're thinking in terms of like energetics.

I talk about this a lot in the herbalism, PTSD and traumatic stress course.

But like a lot of people struggling with traumatic stress and like PTSD type symptoms,

they're like, like there's often a lot of ******* heat, like, and a lot of inflammation.

And that kind of heat comes with those symptoms.

Like you know, intense anxiety, which is like a highly activating state or anger and rage.

You know, like you see people with yeah, just this *******,

like strong *******, like survival life force that's kind of,

you know, got kind of repressed and disrupted because it hasn't been able to like, achieve a

sense of, like, safety.

And so, like, like a lot of these cardiac

nerve lines, like, are very cooling.

And I think that's again, like, energetically how they can, like, tend to people is just

kind of like cooling that fire a little bit.

And I really feel like that's why, like,

plants like Hawthorne are just like, amazing for people that are a bit *******, like,

Like Taipei, you know, Like a bit like always on the go, always ******* tense, always

******* hyper, responsible.

A lot of,

like,

tension and like, anxiety.

But, like, maybe they're still kind of high

functioning.

And then, you know, like, you, like, you see

like on these shows where like, there's like, some solicitor who's, like, working in New

York and is like, doing all this,

and then suddenly they have a heart attack.

That's because, like, they've been able to just, like, keep going, but, like, their

internal landscape is like a different picture.

And I feel like Hawthorne has this affinity with people of that kind of makeup, if that

makes sense.

Like, they are like, yeah, like, they're kind of like they have a lot of inflammation in

their blood vessels, but that's like, not expressed itself, unfortunately, until it's

kind of too late.

Does that make sense?

I feel like lots of people express distress in kind of ways with their, like, digestive

system or their immune system, and they develop kind of like autoimmune problems or

like, chronic fatigue, stuff like this.

And then I feel like a lot of people where kind of like cardiac stuff is like their fault

line, it's often like, it takes a long time until those symptoms, like, really manifest.

Like someone is, like, in quite good health and then they just suddenly get diagnosed

with, like, high blood pressure or suddenly have like, some kind of like, small, like, TIA

kind of stroke or something.

Does that make sense?

So anyway, I don't want to scare you there, but I would also because I know everyone that

listens.

Not everyone, but most people that listen to

the show are like, ******* witchy as.

And you don't just sign up to herbalism because you're a science nerd.

You sign up to it because you love plants and you feel that energy and you have an animist

worldview.

And so a really rich tradition with these herbs that have this kind of cardiovascular,

like, association is really supporting, like, the emotional heart.

And here we're looking at states of grief and heartbreak and distress.

And like, emotional pain and you know, like, all of those states have real, like,

physiological manifestations.

Right?

But yeah, and I don't want to say that those things aren't physiological because they are

100% experienced physiologically.

But I'm just talking about that resonance of

like,

how do we soothe someone's like, heartache? Do you know what I mean?

Like, it's kind of easier to be like, right, I'm having heart palpitations.

You know, I'll take like some mother war or something to help with that.

Like, that's a kind of like, easier sell, so to speak, than like,

I am ******* traumatized because I had a mother who was like, neglectful and abusive

and therefore working with a herb like mother wore kind of spiritually and energetically so

that I receive,

learn to receive love and nurturance from myself to help heal that kind of mother wound.

Like, that's just like a whole other ball game of kind of like support.

Does that make sense? I'm like, I'm not gonna say that I don't

practice herbalism like that because I 100 do and I feel like.

But you know, like, I never switch off the, like, sciency brain either.

But yeah, like, these cardiac nervines, like, really show up for us in,

in experiences of like, emotional kind of heartache and grief.

And yeah, like, I guess I don't want to, like,

you know, like, overshare on this podcast, but, like,

I haven't been able to disclose what's been like, really happening with my ex mostly

because, like,

addiction and active addiction and drug use is like, A, heavily criminalized, B, heavily

stigmatized, and C,

I haven't worked out myself how I feel about everything yet, but basically, like, I'm

navigating one of like, the most emotionally painful breakups, like, of my life because I

literally had a child with this man and had all this kind of, you know, these expectations

of like, he wanted to be a stay at home dad.

And like, you know, like,

I've got a lot of daddy issues from my childhood and like, I just wanted that kind of

family feeling.

And I know there's like,

critique from, like, all areas around the nuclear family.

And, like, I read this really ******* awesome book called Pirate Care.

I really want to get them on the podcast,

but there was like a sentence in there around, like, the fantasy of, like, the nuclear family

and how we just all kind of like fall for it or not all of us.

But, like, I definitely, like,

entered some weird phase where, like, that's what I was craving and that's what I thought

would give me some sort of, like, inner healing, I guess.

And then it's just been, like, obliterated by,

like, patriarchal behavior and,

you know, our healthcare system failing, people in active addiction and,

you know, like, terrible patriarchal decision making,

you know, by my ex, and then just having the consequences of, like, being a single mum

without any *******, you know, like, with very little support.

Like, I have way more support than a lot of people, but in terms of, like, that structural

support of, like, how people just ******* ignore,

like, reproductive labor and caring labor.

And, like, anything that is, like, feminized

and gendered is just, like, like, down the hierarchy of importance to people.

Anyway, that's a side rant.

But I guess what I'm trying to say is that, like, I've been navigating, like,

a lot of grief, and that's, like, on top of all this grief of, like, my friend Taylor

killing himself in prison and, you know, just, like, the grief of becoming a mum, of all

these, like, life changes and massive, like, identity shifts and stuff like this.

And, like,

yeah, I kind of feel like our culture,

like, we have all these stupid room.

I mean, I don't want to say stupid.

I love a romantic comedy.

I'm not gonna lie.

But we have all these, like, romance films that,

you know, should give us this kind of, like, happy ending, I guess.

And,

you know, sometimes they have, like,

insight into, like, the pain of heartbreak.

But more often than not, it's like, yay,

let's, like, get a rebound **** or let's do this or whatever.

Like,

how do we actually respond to that level of pain?

Like, that level of, like, intense emotional pain of losing someone you love or seeing

someone you love suffer or just, like, seeing the world suffer.

Do you know what I mean? Like, talk about grief around,

like,

losing.

You know,

I'm not gonna list all the heavy things going on in the world.

I know people listening to this show are very ******* politically active and engaged in

their struggles, so, you know what I'm talking about.

But just like,

yeah, how do we attend to kind of, like, our broken hearts?

Like, And I think, like, friendship breakups are, like, just as painful as,

you know, like, romantic relationship breakups.

Like, and I've lost, like, several friends having a baby.

You know, like, one friend who I supported in prison for nearly 15 years just stopped

calling me once I had my child.

And it was like, just.

It's still one of the most, like, painful

things I've been through because I'm just like, wow, like, the loss of that kind of,

like,

depth of friendship and support that I thought was like a fair, not an equal dynamic, but I

thought was like, reciprocal.

And then suddenly, like, I can't be that kind

of, like, carer and a cold person.

So therefore I'm just like, redundant.

Like, **** me, that's like a lesson of a

lifetime.

So, yeah, and, you know, like, I've support.

Supported a lot of people going through that,

like, emotional heartbreak.

And like, herbs, like, do make a difference.

And I'm going to talk about that, like, those kind of nuances.

So, like, for example,

herbs like rose, right, like, are cardiac nerve vine and have this amazing relaxing

action on the body and are very cooling and fantastic for inflammation, especially in the

gut and the blood vessels.

But they help you feel,

you know, the amount of times I've passed around a sample of like, rose, petal glycerite

or tincture, and people have just started bursting into tears, like, literally,

like, that herb is acting on levels I cannot comprehend in terms of energetically impacting

the body and allowing you to feel safe enough to express your feelings.

So, yeah, like, I feel like,

yeah, that's the kind of energy of rose to me.

But other people have different experiences,

obviously.

Whereas I feel like Hawthorne just has this,

like, amazing relationship with grief.

And like, I cannot tell you the amount of times that I have been,

for example, like, harvesting Hawthorne flowers, like in the summer, like May, kind of

end of April time, and then been preparing for someone's death.

You know, I know that sounds morbid.

And then in the winter when it's like the berry season or like the autumn,

that, you know, I lose that person and it's like, I've got that medicine that has helped

with that kind of like, pre grief situation.

Does that make sense?

I feel like Hawthorne showed up for me like that when my grandparents died and when close

friends died.

And the other thing with Hawthorne is I feel it's fantastic for that kind of pre grief.

And then I feel like it's obviously fantastic during any kind of grief after you've lost

someone working with Hawthorne, but also really fantastic and kind of like that

remembering feeling of like,

processing and kind of moving on and releasing.

Like, I feel like there's something going on energetically with Hawthorne that just like,

helps with that, like, entire process, or at least to me, anyway.

I'd love to hear all of your experiences with that amazing plant.

Whereas I feel like energetically like Yarrow has this amazing action on the blood vessels,

like, in terms of this kind of instantaneous relaxant but compared to Hawthorne, for

example, it's a lot more sort of toning and astringent.

And Yarrow has all these kind of traditional folkloric kind of relationships with blood,

with injuries, and soldiers carrying Yarrow in their pocket and stuff so that they can apply

Yarrow onto bleeding wounds and cuts and things.

But Yarrow has this fierce ******* protective energy.

To me, it's really this kind of.

It's associated with Achilles and this.

Yeah, just this kind of like courage and fortitude somehow.

And yeah,

the operation of repression that put me and 12 people in the campaign against this animal

testing company in prison was actually called Operation Achilles.

And the cops goal was to.

They called it leadership decapitation.

But their premise was that like 40 people

around the country were responsible for all of the Animal Liberation Front actions, and if

they could just like decapitate the leadership, that a lot of that stuff in the

movement would stop.

And that, you know, unfortunately was like, very effective as a strategy.

And yeah, they kind of like targeted our keys, which was, you know, like the people in the

campaign and our sort of intense relationships.

And they just went like straight to the core of that, if that makes sense.

But I've always felt funny with Yarrow about finding Yarrow in prison after this kind of

Operation Achilles and then learning about Yarrow's name, which is like Achillea

milifolium.

So it's like, yeah, just all these kind of like witchy, weird influences.

But yeah, anyway,

I've been talking about that.

I feel like I've been bouncing around a lot.

But yeah, I basically wanted to say that these cardiac nervines have all of these amazing

actions on the cardiovascular system.

They have all sorts of diverse epic plant

chemicals that support the vasculature, that can support directly the heart, that can help

us shift from states of intense activation to more of a like,

parasympathetic state.

But also, like, these herbs have this like,

energetic power, as do all ******* herbs and plant medicines.

But yeah, they have this kind of like,

connection with kind of like grief and heartbreak and pain in that way.

And I guess, like, the last thing I want to say about that is that, like,

I feel like heartache is the right word because it's like an ache like.

Like, for example, with my recent breakup, like, it's not shatteringly awful every

******* day of the week, right? Like the acute crisis of, you know, his

relapse and asking him to move out and stuff like that was like, extremely painful, like

last summer.

But that has like shifted into A more like a more like, constant sensation of, like,

heartache and, like, grief.

Of, like.

Of those.

Of, like, that.

Of, like, that pain being,

like, kind of composted.

Like, I write in my Overcoming Burnout book

about.

About, like, composting grief.

And I feel like there's something in the body or the psyche where we have to kind of, like,

compost and process our experiences.

And while that's happening, like, we have these, like,

daily moments of, like, micro grief.

Does that make sense?

Like,

so, like, I can be happy as Larry.

Like, I'm generally pretty,

like, Tigger bouncy, like, annoying person like that in terms of, like, quite optimistic

and energetic.

But then, you know, they would just be the smallest thing.

Like, my son said, like, I want Daddy the other day.

For, like, he's hardly said any proper sentences.

Like, his vocabulary is epic.

But he said that.

And, like, literally, I just, like,

wanted to ******* cry my eyes out.

Sorry, I have to come back in a second, I think.

All right.

Sorry.

I really have to get this ******* podcast done because I've got a lot to do this morning.

But,

yeah, what I basically was trying to say is that heartache is a ******, and it just rears

its ugly head, like, regularly.

And it's like these micro moments of grief and

pain that kind of take a long time to shift and heal.

And I feel like working with herbs.

Like, I've got a little ritual now where late afternoon when I'm, like, struggling most with

my energy,

I will have, like, a cup of cocoa,

like, hot cocoa powder in soy milk, like, and hot water, and I'll have, like, a kind of

capful of rose petal glycerite.

And it just, like, is like, a affirmation to me of, like, right, Like, I'm,

like, I love myself, and I am doing a really good job as a, like, single mum and that, you

know, like,

I deserve to be treated well, and I deserve love and my son deserves, like, a safe, happy

home to grow up in.

And like,

hell,

do you know what? I'm actually just gonna stop talking and I'm

gonna.

Because I'm in my herbshed, I'm gonna have

some cardiac nerve.

I'm just gonna have a gigantic swig of rose

petal glycerite and some Hawthorne flower glycerate.

I wanted to talk about the differences between Hawthorne berry and flower, but gonna have to

save that bad boy for another day.

All I wanted to say is,

if this stuff is interesting to you, you will love the herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress

course.

Because I have 32 in depth plant profiles

where I talk about all the, like the plant chemistry stuff and the actions and then I

talk about the kind of, you know,

like, probably don't do it enough justice in terms of like the energetic stuff.

I feel like I'm.

I'm just not the best person with that stuff.

But anyway, like, yeah, I do my best to share

at least my experiences.

Like that's what I feel I can share and you

know, like research around different plants and like, sort of associations and like

traditions and stuff.

Like, I don't go into loads of detail about like folklore and stuff because again, it's

not really like my field.

But like,

I do my best, you know, and, and I will kind of like put in quotes from other herbalists

who are like ******* amazing in that kind of like terrain.

But yeah, if this interests you, if you're like, hell, I really want to learn how to

harvest these herbs.

I want to learn how to make medicine.

Like all of that stuff's in there as well.

All of the geeky I've been talking about with the nervous system, like, that's all in there

and like it is.

No one turned away for lack of funds.

So please don't think about this and think, oh, I can't afford the course because it is

for people.

Like whatever your income level,

obviously, like paying for it ******* helps, you know, the solid apothecary and my

livelihood as a single mom and stuff.

But like, hell, like, I don't want anyone to

be deprived access to ******* the life changing impacts of plant medicine because of

******* capitalism, you know.

So please check it out.

It's open for a little bit longer.

And yeah, please, yeah, share this ******* episode with anyone,

you know that's into plants and political and all the things and yeah, thank you for

listening.

All right, take care.

Oh, yeah, and I will be back soon talking about other forms of nervines.

But yeah, anyway, thank you so much for listening.

Okay, bye.

Thanks so much for listening to the Frontline Herbalism podcast.

You can find the transcript, the links, all the resources from the show@solidarity

apothecary.org podcast.