93 – Learning Herbalism, Part Two

Welcome to the Frontline Herbalism podcast with your host Nicole Rose from the

Solidarity Apothecary.

This is your place for all things plants and

liberation.

Let's get started.

Hello. Welcome back to the Frontline Herbalism training.

So I'm really sorry, I had a bunch of technical issues with my laptop.

I had a bunch of kind of baby interruption issues.

So it, yeah, instead of kind of doing like one really long thorough episode about your kind

of herbalism learning journey, I've actually split the audio into three, three shows.

So yeah, the last one was focusing on the importance of like intimacy with plants and

getting to know a few plants in a lot of detail and depth.

And then I was also talking about the kind of diy, like follow your passion approach of sort

of self foraging different kind of free sources of information and then finally

talking about like experimentation and the kind of importance of practical skills and

medicine making.

This episode I'm going to be talking about kind of learning styles.

I go off on a side tangent about learning styles but really knowing yourself in depth so

that you can decide the right kind of clinical training for you if that's your herbalism

pathway.

And that isn't just big programs, that's also kind of smaller online programs, you know.

And I'm going to talk about some of the main ones, the so called UK and also some in the US

that I've done as well.

And then yeah, the next episode is going to be talking about kind of mentoring and finding

people to learn from that you feel affinity with.

And also this kind of like continual professional development stuff like how to

kind of, you know, integrate herbs into your sort of lifelong learning journey and yeah,

designing your learning pathway.

So I hope this episode is useful.

I do like say a couple of disclaimers in there of like, please, for every school I've

mentioned, please speak to graduates who know it well.

You know, read the website, read the prospectuses,

talk to the tutors.

Like I don't want anyone to make their

learning decisions based on what I've said and the tiny snippets of information I've got.

And I definitely don't want to misrepresent any kind of programs of learning.

Like I would be upset if someone did that about my PTSD course.

Right.

So yeah, so take what I say with a pinch of

salt.

I'm just, yeah, I have met a lot of students

and graduates and to different programs and I'm trying to be kind of like tactful and talk

about their strengths and weaknesses.

But anyway, yeah, please like do Your thorough research into all the options and speak to

people with lived experience of a course.

Because they're the.

Yeah, they're the best people to talk to.

Okay, thanks so much.

And yeah, just shameless reminder.

The herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress course is still open for enrollment.

I'm in this kind of like launch period where I'm just promoting it the best I can.

Yeah, please share it with your friends and your networks and your herbal Facebook groups

and your communities.

Anyone you know that will benefit from

learning about herbalism, from learning about trauma and the politics of trauma, just.

Yeah, point them in my direction.

I would really, really appreciate that.

As you know, I'm like a kind of one woman show at the moment.

And obviously I, you know, I organize and have a massive network of people around the world

that I'm in relationship with.

But I just mean in the sense that it's really, really hard with the baby to get a lot done.

And yeah, I'm just, you know, this is my kind of livelihood.

And this is how I fund all of the work with the apothecary, all of the prisoner's herbal

books, all of the care packages.

It like subsidizes me to support people one to one and do like all the other millions of

things.

So, yeah, I just really, really, really

appreciate your solidarity in sharing the course.

All right, let me know what you think of this episode or this little series about learning

herbalism.

Okay, thanks so much.

Take care.

Bye.

All right, so now I'm going to talk about more sort of structured clinical training.

Or I guess it doesn't have to be clinical training, but I'm going to talk about kind of

structured learning.

And I mean that in the sense that like someone

else has structured it so you're kind of able to like sink into someone else's system.

Like they've organized the information, you know, they've put things into modules or

lessons into sort of thematic topics.

And you can work through those either in a sort of linear way or in a way like the

herbalism, PTSD and traumatic stress course, where you can kind of like bounce around and

kind of follow your interests.

But there's still like that structure there.

So I think, yeah, this.

And this is the main question.

I get a lot about my clinical training.

But I think before I talk about some of the

different options, I think any successful kind of course of learning,

it really demands that you know yourself and your needs and your learning style and also

your nervous system, in my opinion.

So when I did my, like, I just did like as levels at college before, I just, yeah, I just

couldn't do it anymore.

Had lots of stuff going on and it wasn't like

fulfilling me.

I remember doing a assessment which was like looking at your learning style and it was

quite reductionist.

So it was only like 20 questions.

Like, it's not like strong science or anything, but 19 out of 20 of these questions

I got concrete sequential learner, which means, like, I need like tangible things that

are very like concrete and practical in a sort of sequence.

So, yeah, maybe that's why I like things like spreadsheets and bullet points.

Like, people will be very interested of how I organize information.

Like, my partner wants to write a book about addiction and sort of, you know, class and

poverty and stuff around, you know, how people who use drugs are so dehumanized and stuff.

But that's kind of sort of autobiographical and he's really struggled to organize that

content into any sort of framework or chapters.

And, you know, we literally went for coffees before the baby came along and within like

half an hour we'd like outlined his book.

And he was just like, I haven't been able to do that ever.

And you know, he's got adhd, so like his, he's got his own sort of neurodiversity.

But for me, like, I'm so sort of sequenced.

You're probably like laughing at this, being

like, nah, Nicole, you're bouncing around all over the place on this podcast.

But for me, like,

I really struggle with like, for example, like super waffly teachers or really abstract

things.

Like, I, you know, I had an ex who got a

degree in philosophy and I was just like,

yeah, I'm just not, I'm just not getting this.

Like, I'm not interested.

No, it's not.

I'm not interested.

But yeah, like, for me it's like, why are we like thinking about this when like this and

this needs doing or the washing up needs doing or do you know what I mean?

So anyway, I think know your learning style and I know that models of learning styles are

sort of a little bit outdated and they also can be a bit reductionist.

Like, we can think that we're one thing and actually maybe we're not, or maybe that's like

a limiting kind of belief or mindset that we've got.

So,

yeah, for example, I know for me that I'm hypervisual.

I love graphs and pictures and frameworks and systems and structures and I really struggle

with like long form kind of essay type content.

Like, I enrolled in this foot health course because I really want to develop my foot

health skills for Calais and I should have asked more questions before buying just the

theoretical side of the course.

But like, it's all like assignments and loads of reading, but like proper academic essays.

And you know, I studied with the plant medicine school and we did have to write, you

know, ******* a million and one assignments.

But they weren't, it wasn't like.

And you needed to reference things, but it

wasn't like that kind of like hardcore academia where there's like, you know, you get

marked down if you haven't put it in the right format or something, you know.

So I just, I was just like, oh God, like, what have I got myself into?

Because like the courses that suit my learning styles the most are ones where I can watch

videos I can watch, you know, I can look at people's like wonderful PowerPoints and

slides.

There's like this,

oh God, my brain.

I think it's even just like botanical

medicine.org but it's like more focused on sort of like naturopath types.

But they've got loads of herbal medicine content.

And I did their,

they call it substance disorder,

substance use disorder series, but it was like just about kind of herbs and harm reduction

and recovery from opiate use and stuff because of what me and like what my partner was going

through.

And like, I love their format because you can watch the videos but you can also download the

slides, which is perfect for me because then I can annotate them or refer back to them.

Because you're never going to remember this information, right?

Like it's going to go in.

But I have a whole Google Drive of all of my

clinical training documents that I constantly scan and return to because the brain can only

hold so much information, especially when you have a new baby.

So you know, you need to have like some external place where that information is

stored that you can revisit.

There's just too much for our brains in my opinion.

Obviously like, you do absorb a lot, especially if you're working with herbalism

all the time, you know, like when I was seeing clients after my clinical training, like one

to one support for people, I, you know, it was just constantly on the tip of my tongue.

But now I'm a bit like my brain.

I need to like check that.

So, yeah, anyway, this is like a long rant about learning styles.

But like choose the format that will work for you because everyone is different.

Like my friend Kez for example, who's amazing trans femme who's written all These like

amazing books.

Like she's just like, Nicole, I hate Instagram

because I hate pictures.

She.

But she loves text, right?

So she edited my Herbalism Estate violence book and we did it all on like Google Docs and

she would go through and edit.

But like that's her.

She just loves like written format and for me it just, it just doesn't work.

So yeah, just know your learning style.

So if I'm going to enroll in online courses I'm always like, how high quality are their

learning materials? Am I just watching people talk or are they, do

they have PowerPoints?

Do they have handouts? Can I listen on the move for example?

Like some people are very like what they call like kinesthetic learners.

So they want that practical hands on thing which I've talked about with herbalism.

And I think herbalism attracts a lot of people that want those sort of like tangible skills

or kind of like crafty skills.

But sometimes it's actually that you are, you just need to move your body.

So like I will listen a lot while I'm like, I go for a long walk every day with Lee in the

peram and I listen to podcasts or you know, online courses I've enrolled in or something.

And like that just helps me integrate that information because my nickname as a kid was

Fidget because I couldn't sort of sit still and just be forced to listen to a teacher, for

example.

So yeah, choose a course that's going to be, that is going to suit your learning style.

Likewise like some people are not self structured in the sense that they will feel

overwhelmed, they don't know where to start,

they will get sort of lost and they need like either some sort of group component or like

group accountability or they need like deadlines and external structures in order to

kind of force them to do something.

So you know, like I've had the odd person enroll in the herbalism PTSD course and

they're like, they email me and they're like, actually I'm.

This isn't going to work for me and my brain because they need like a group to, you know,

to cheer them on, to check in with them,

to feel like accountable to.

Whereas like I'm actually quite the opposite of I really.

Yeah, like I kind of struggle with like that kind of like enforced socializing if that

makes sense.

Like if I'm in a room and I'm at a course,

like I'll always be sociable and friendly.

Like I'm very extroverted.

But in the sense of like learning in Order to

focus.

I think probably because of a trauma thing of

like constantly scanning everyone's stuff, all of their feelings, what nervous system state

they're in.

I find like group environments very difficult energetically.

If I'm in a class, I will be, you know, just feeling a bit unsafe, if I'm honest in the

sense of like, not that I'm actually physically unsafe, but that my nervous system

is activated by everyone around me.

And for some people they need that to learn and they bounce off everyone's ideas and their

excitement and their energy.

Whereas I think for me to really absorb

something, I have to actually really be alone.

And maybe that's like an Aquarius air sign thing.

But yeah, just really before you enroll in a course, just really think about what suits you

in terms of that.

There's also a thing around kind of like

pacing.

Right.

So some courses are like three year degree

programs where it's really high pressure, a lot of deadlines, like and often a lot of

******* burnout.

If I'm honest that I witness.

Um, and other courses it is a part time thing and you can kind of go at your own pace again.

Everyone is so different.

Which is why like real self reflection about

this is important.

Because some people, it's like, I don't know if people have heard of like Parkinson's law

where it's like an activity will expand to the time you've got to like time you've got

available.

So if you've got half an hour to get ready, it will take you half an hour.

If you've got an hour and a half, it could potentially take you half an hour and a half.

If you've got 10 minutes because you overslept, you've got 10 minutes.

Does that make sense? So I think there's like a strong.

Humans are just like very good at potentially taking longer than they need or.

Yeah.

And so I think like when there isn't a

deadline or there isn't like a kind of, you know, like for me with my clinical training

there was like this kind of like external driver of like I really wanted to be a

herbalist.

Like I was so desperate to kind of graduate and crack on with it.

And I really didn't enjoy my job at the time.

Like I was working part time for this thing

called corporate watch.

And like it was really, to a really fantastic crew but like it was so poorly paid and I was

like researching stuff around prison and it was like worsening my PTSD like every single

day.

But like I don't.

Yeah, I, I Think because of my criminal record

and stuff from my childhood, like I've been.

I have a perception of like, oh, I'm not going

to get a job anywhere.

And you know, I live like quite rurally and stuff.

And like my politics is like difficult to, you know, like when I used to do care work and

stuff.

You need like a.

I'm so sorry.

My Audacity software that I record podcasts on

keeps crashing so I'm a little bit stop start.

But ye.

I was basically saying is that sometimes we need sort of speed to, you know, to complete

something and people need like deadlines to focus and structure themselves and their work.

Sometimes you have like some sort of economic pressure.

Like for example I was saying about I. I just had to ******* leave my job.

Like, I was so sick of it.

I was researching about prisons and doing a lot of research and writing work which is a

kind of like learned strength.

But it's not like my like natural flowy

strength, if that makes sense.

And yeah, just constantly interacting with prison, prison, prison, which was just harming

my mental health so much and it was like so poorly paid and I just was going nowhere.

So for me, herbalism felt like this really sort of expansive opportunity and I just

couldn't sort of wait to be kind of quote unquote qualified to practice.

So yeah, so basically before I dive into like some of the courses that are available, I

think like knowing your learning style is so important.

And I also mentioned the importance of your nervous system and embracing a huge body of

learning is like very, can be very stressful.

It can also be ******* wonderful.

Like, I had a friend stay who'd been training with Heartwood, who I, who I'll talk about

later.

And they were like, oh, you know, like which part of your training did you like not enjoy?

And I was like, what do you mean? And they were like, you know, like which bit

did you hate? Like, and I was like,

oh, like actually I loved like all the topics.

Like I couldn't like, I love the anatomy and

physiology and the pathology stuff and learning about health and disease.

Like, I love learning about plants.

I loved you know, like the prescribing stuff.

Like, and I was just like a bit stumped of

like oh, I actually can't think of what I didn't like.

Like I absolutely loved it.

I used to get up at 5 in the morning and work on things and you know, like I would do like I

just literally spent every spare second I could doing my course and learning and self

educating and you know, I was Kind of in my element, if that makes sense.

Which is why I know that like herbalism is right for me.

But I'm just saying that if you kind of go down that route of a big course, then I think

you need to know that you feel resourced enough for it.

I would love to do further training.

I would love to study paramedic science for

example.

I love doing, I've done the first responder,

first response emergency care frac4 course, which is, I guess it's a kind of EMT thing,

emergency medicine technician, but we don't really have that framework in the uk.

But like I would love to go down that route one day for example.

But I know like doing some sort of degree or big course of study, it's just like not

compatible with a newborn baby and you know, trying to have a livelihood and running the

apothecary and stuff.

So it's like, I know it's not the right moment right now,

so I think like you have to know that and it's not always the right time.

Like sometimes you just have to like jump off a cliff and kind of go for it, if that makes

sense.

But I do think like again, just a self awareness is really important and that's why I

created the herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress course is like, it's very structured in

the sense that there's clear modules, there's clear learning outcomes and aims and like I'm

not a big waffler like that.

You know, the lessons are kind of as discreet as they can be while trying to go into depth.

And there's big resource libraries so you can kind of self forage and compliment what I'm

sharing with you.

Um,

but it is like a gift to the nervous system in the sense that there's no one like hounding

you to submit an assignment or you know, meet a deadline that you just like don't have the

sort of nervous system capacity to do.

Like there's no overwhelming kind of forums or group calls or you know, so it's kind of like

gentle and nourishing and you can set your own pace.

And for me, like that was the only option I could think of where actually it could like

support people's nervous systems and not harm them.

Because I've seen, you know, I think that's also why I dropped out of formal education as

a kid was like my nervous system was so smashed with having a partner in prison,

having a best friend with cancer, moving out at 16, like having no money, like dealing with

all this childhood Trauma stuff like how the hell am I going to have the spoons and the

resources to then,

you know, do some like massive degree that takes loads of time and energy and money, if

that makes sense.

Um, so it's like choosing a mode of study that

is like nourishing for you.

And you know, maybe that's like enrolling in a year long course where you can go once a month

for a weekend and just go foraging and you just want to be outside, you just want to be

with people, you just want to be with plants.

You don't want to read a ******* PDF, you just want to like do the outdoor thing.

Like, maybe that's what your body needs right now.

Or maybe you are like intellectually kind of hungry for that herbalism knowledge.

And you know, you really want to be a clinical herbalist.

You really want to do it full time, you know, in your bones.

It's your passion.

And you do want to like, you know, go all in

on a training program.

And sometimes you just don't know, right? Sometimes you have to jump in and then be

like, hey, this isn't working for me actually.

And I saw that like, I think our, you know,

different herbal courses have quite high dropout rates sometimes because people are

like, they think it's going to be just this like wonderful outdoor adventure.

And then actually it's like, wow, like learning about biochemistry is like hard.

And you know, learning all these, you know, mechanisms of drugs and pharmaceuticals and

how they interact with plant constituents, like, whoa, this isn't what I was expecting,

you know, so it's like,

you know, you can also just sign up for something and then be like, this isn't really

for me.

Or, you know, you'll learn something about your learning style.

So anyway, this is much longer than I expected to talk about it, but I think it is so

foundational is just knowing yourself, knowing your needs and your desires, knowing your

capacity, which can change.

You know, we can expand our sort of nervous systems like ability to kind of cope with

things.

And you know,

things that are challenging don't have to necessarily be stressful.

You know, like training didn't necessarily put me in a big kind of fight or flight response

because I love learning so much and it was so joyful for me and the kind of workaholism

tendencies of distracting from all the stuff was really pleasurable.

But yeah, just, just kind of like reflect on where you're at and what you need and what

courses are likely compatible with you,

ideally before jumping in or spending lots of money or, you know, Embarking on something.

Okay, so I'm not going to go into lots of depth about all the options because it would

be endless podcasts about endless programs.

And I'm aware that lots of people listen to

this who aren't just in like England, Wales or Scotland for example.

But I will talk about like some of the main sort of schools or options to learn and then a

couple of my favorites from the so called us.

But yeah, there are many, many, many more beside these.

And I wanted to kind of keep this stuff like a little bit broader than that.

But I think to give what I'm going to say more context, I think is useful for you to know

like the different things.

So for example, unfortunately a lot of the herbal medicine degree programs at

universities have closed down over the years.

I don't know why that is other than potential funding and prejudice and things like this.

But it has really reduced the options and the flexibility for people wanting to kind of

really undertake herbalism as a kind of like clinical herbalist path.

So for example, I think in the UK like the only degree program left is Lincoln

University.

And I know they have part time options as

well.

And I've met like a bunch of people who've

been to Lincoln, a couple have come to Calais and I do think they have been like really

fantastic herbalists in terms of,

I think all the kind of diagnosis stuff is like very thorough.

People are often quite confident kind of clinically or like medically.

I think maybe people have felt frustrated about the lack of practical things on the

course.

But I do think that is like one of the things that you can quite easily learn on your own or

learn elsewhere.

Does that make sense?

So I think it is quite a sort of strong course,

obviously involves living up there or you know, going part time so that you can travel

to university.

I don't, I'm actually speaking with inaccuracy

here because I don't know for sure how their program is structured.

But so please check out their website in case I've just like told you a load of nonsense.

So yeah, so the degree is obviously, you know, with degrees that you can get loans and

things, but they're obviously like very kind of, you know, huge bodies of things to enroll

in.

But yeah, it's definitely, you know, it's definitely an option and, and you know, a

great one if that's for you.

And then there is an organization called Heartwood, which I think a lot of people have

heard of.

So they offer clinical herbalism training

which is accredited by the National Institute of Medical herbalists, which are like the main

body in the so called UK that a kind of herbalist can register with.

And I'm currently creating another online course at the moment called do no Harm about

like safe practice, you know, in projects like Cali and stuff.

And yeah, I talk about some of the, the frameworks around people that are pro

statutory regulation being regulated by the state kind of formal professional bodies.

You know, some of the strengths of that in terms of codes of ethics and standards of

practice and like sort of rigorous curriculums and things and then also like some of the

weaknesses of that.

But anyway, so yeah, so if you want to be an accredited herbalist like basically in the uk

like herbalism isn't regulated.

Some people have been fighting for regulation and I, if you are one of those people, I doubt

you've been listening to this podcast because you'll know that I'm an anarchist and I'm

trying to build a world the state.

So I definitely don't want a kind of profession that's got thousands of years of

practice and you know, embeddedness in communities to be something that becomes the

monopoly of people that have only had a certain form of education.

Anyway, that is like another massive podcast side note.

But what I'm trying to say is for some people it is actually really important to them that

they are accredited in the sense that they have like registration with the National

Institute Medical Herbalists.

And that you know, maybe they also want a degree so that they can go on to do like

further Master's degrees or PhDs.

Like some people just know from the get go

that they want to go down the sort of research ethnobotany type route.

So rock and roll if that's you.

But yeah, Hartwood offer a course that is accredited by nim,

this National Institute Medical Herbalists.

And yeah, I've met like a lot of Hartwood

graduates and yeah, it's been, it's been a lot of mixed reviews.

I think people value a lot of the content and think it's incredibly thorough.

But I think there is like, and I'm probably going to offend and upset people here but like

a little bit of a like kind of macho grueling atmosphere of like a huge volume of work, a

lot of deadlines, you have to just ******* grin and bear it.

Maybe not that much student support from what I've heard.

But this is just herbal rumors.

So I do not want to cause them a disservice

because I'm sure other people have had really fantastic experiences with them.

But it is a flexible program in terms of being able to,

you know, study at home and you have to do like a whole bunch of clinical hours, like at

least 500 clinical hours.

So you have to go to clinics and kind of

apprentice with clinical herbalists.

But, yeah, most of the kind of education is.

Is what you're doing on your own, but it's like highly, highly structured.

So it's like, you have to do this by this point.

And yeah, for some of my friends, they really, really value that and they really need that to

get stuff done.

So that is for them.

That is 100%.

Not for me.

I. It's literally unbearable for me to have to

do something by a certain date for someone else.

But anyway.

But yeah, I have heard mixed reviews.

But I've also.

A lot of people, you know, are just kind of

cracking on with it and it has been expensive for them in terms of learning herbalism and

introduce them to whole worlds of herbalism stuff and, you know,

a bit more kind of clinically confident.

Yeah. So. And then there's Botanica, which again, and I'm.

I, Yeah, I really don't know.

Don't wanna.

I don't want someone to choose between these programs based on what I'm saying because I'm

getting, like, very limited, sneaky bits of testimonial from people who studied with them.

And you know what people are like.

Like, you're more likely to complain about something if you've had a negative experience

than you are, say, like, oh, this was really wonderful for me.

Do you know what I mean?

But, yeah, I had.

So I have met a few Botanica graduates and

again, I think the course is, like, very demanding in terms of,

you know, lessons and assignments and things.

But unlike Heartwood, you are sort of getting

together in a physical location and like, learning together over a weekend.

So coming back to that, like, self education,

like, learning style, reflection.

If you're someone that really benefits from a group environment, from seeing things live,

from being able to ask questions, from watching people do things, I think Botanica is

like a really great option for people that are like, yeah, that's their kind of, like,

kinesthetic, kind of practical learning style.

Yeah. So that's.

I don't know how long their program is, maybe

four years.

But again, check out their website, speak to

people who've studied with them.

And then.

Yeah, so I trained with the Plant Medicine

school,

which at the time were only based in Ireland,

and they now have schools based in Exmoor and Somerset as well as in Scotland.

So. And I know that the program has radically developed over the years since I graduated,

so I think there's probably even more sort of, like, taught content.

Sorry, my laptop crashed again.

Yeah, so I think there is more, like, taught

kind of content.

So when I. Yeah, and the kind of last half of the training for me was, like, when the

pandemic started.

And so the school had to kind of like.

Like, everyone just, like, rapidly adapt and move online, which for me was actually really

beneficial because I was spending a lot of money,

like, trapping.

Traveling to Ireland on the ferry with my

camper van and that, you know, we used to the clinic and stuff now.

And, yeah, it was.

It was like, a lot, if that makes sense.

So I was kind of, like, very appreciative when all the sort of lectures got put online and

got recorded and.

But even before then, there was, like, a lot of information.

But for me, like, the school had, like, the perfect mix of sort of, like, what I call,

like, liberating structure.

So there was, like, areas of focus of, like,

you know, like, shitloads of assignments you needed to do and, you know, like, clinical

training weeks where you're learning a bunch of practical skills.

But, like, there was so much freedom to.

And I don't know if this is the same now.

Like, maybe it's different.

So, again, like, check out their perspectives

and everything now.

But, like,

for me, I really felt like it was a school where it was like, you actually just kind of

treated like an adult of like, okay, I. You know, it's the skin this month.

Here's, like, a few handouts on the skin.

Go and learn about it, you know, and then can

you do these three assignments about herbal support for eczema or psoriasis or whatever?

And it was like, for me, that was, like, so perfect because I could then go and watch a

bunch of, like, YouTube videos about, you know, black skin and dermatology, and then I

could read about, you know, herbs from this thing, and then I could work on my assignment.

And I just, like, loved that freedom, and it really suited me.

But I do know that that really doesn't suit other people and other graduates are just a

bit like, whoa, there's just, like, not enough content here.

Like, there's not enough, like, taught stuff.

Like, you know, like, they felt like the anatomy, physiology stuff just wasn't there or

whatever.

But this, again, this is, like, several years

ago.

So I think things have changed now.

Whereas for me, I would have my anatomy and physiology, like, coloring book and textbooks

and Davidson's medicine and stuff, and I would just like dive in deep with that.

Like, just autonomously.

Like, I didn't give a if a tutor was going to look at it or not.

So this is what I mean by just like, reflecting on your learning.

Style is so important.

So for example, we had to do like several assignments.

And like, I,

like when I worked for Corporate Watch, like, I did a bunch of overtime and like moved my

hours around and then used my holiday hours.

I mean, I only worked like three days a week

with them, but it meant like the whole of the February one year.

I just did assignments and I did like eight assignments in a row.

And I just got like completely in it with like getting up, studying da da da, writing all the

formats.

And like,

that just worked for me.

Like, it worked for me so much.

Like, I could go with my energy, I could go with my ****** menstrual cycle.

I could go with like, stuff needed in campaigns and prison visits and other things,

but still know that as long as I had completed all of these things before I took my clinical

exam that I'm okay, you know? And I really loved that things weren't like,

marked in the sense that, that they weren't giving.

Like, hey, you got an A or you've got like 93 or like, you know, like, I'm an anarchist.

Like, I've read a lot about, you know, like, pedigy and free air and popular education and

like all of this stuff.

And like, I do find like this kind of like grading model, like, quite oppressive.

And I'm just not.

I'm just not up for it anymore.

I'm too old.

Like, I'm not.

I'm just not in that world.

So for me it was like so great that I could

submit an assignment.

And my tutor Jane, who is like, *******

wonderful human, like, super caring,

loads of life experience.

Like, used to do a lot of stuff with people

with different kind of mental health challenges and just had so much herbal

knowledge, but so humble.

And like, she could just send the assignment back and be like, what about this, this and

this? Or like, oh, you've missed this.

And then I would like edit it and send it back to her and she'd be like, brilliant and like,

I just love that.

And like, there was so much flexibility with the clinical hours.

So, like, you could do like online clinics with various herbalists and they were just

******* amazing.

Like, Marie Riley in Ireland, Joe Goodyear in

Ireland,

Jane as well, Jane Woolworth, who I just mentioned.

Like, I just felt like I had found this treasure trust of amazing women with so much

knowledge who were actually really down to earth.

Like, I remember being in Ireland and going to a clinic with Marie Riley and this patient had

come in and they had a bunch of stuff going on.

And then Marie was just like, yeah, she's like a single parent.

Like she's, she's stressed.

Like, of course she's gonna have this, this

and this.

And it just felt like so refreshing of like

someone actually is like acknowledging this kind of like class stuff a bit, you know.

So anyway, so yeah, my experience with the plant medicine school was like, really

fantastic.

Like in the sense of like, I could be really

autonomous.

I knew the assignments I needed to do the

clinical hours were super flexible.

Like I said to Jane, like, I don't want to put the people that approaching me for support in

like my final months before graduation.

Like, I don't want them to be in a room with

like 20 students on Zoom, like for people that, you know, had left prison or were on

methadone or,

you know, whatever.

So like I gave her a little bit extra money,

like not much, but she, we'd, you know, she would be up for doing like one to one stuff

with me.

So then I could support someone who had experienced a lot more sort of trauma one to

one with Jane there, like observing me for my clinical hours.

And I could also use my time in Calais as my field as a field coordinator as also part of

my clinical hours.

So that was fantastic.

And yeah, I just, I just loved the like, freedom and the flexibility.

I know, like with any course you do, you're gonna gray up against certain teachers.

You're going to be frustrated with certain political worldviews they have.

You know, like I'm a white, like cess bisexual woman.

Like, I'm not in that class feeling majorly alienated.

You know, I mean, like, I don't know how it's felt for the students of color.

I mean, I think we only had one person of color in our group in Ireland, for example.

So, yeah, I'm just totally talking about my own experiences and I think, yeah, everyone's

going to have a different experience and you know, people may have had encounters that have

felt problematic or, you know, where they've had to challenge like racism or ableism or,

you know, kind of biological determinism around sex and gender and stuff.

So yeah, I'm not, I think, like, I'm not walking into a space thinking that everyone's

going to be sort of some perfect anarchist and, you know, but I'm walking into a space

hoping that they're open to feedback and learning and improving the course and yeah,

and I kind of felt like that the Plant Medicine School were in terms of,

you know, like Nikki, the main sort of director of the school, like, you know, she

got loads of prisoners herbals from me to send to people in prison in Ireland and like was

really supportive of that book and that project and like I never felt judged and I

loved that.

Like I loved that they knew about my history, but they were like welcoming.

And after my experiences with with Nim,

like it felt so different and I actually felt like they were sort of like comrades, if that

makes sense.

Like they would make medicine for Calais or

donate and share things and like,

I don't know, it just felt like more kind of like homely and intimate.

But anyway, so that was my experience with the Plant Medicine School.

But it's a lot, it's like three and a half thousand hours or something of learning and

you know, you have to do at least 500 clinical hours and it's four years and like, yeah, it's

a lot of graft,

like it's a lot of work.

But it was really wonderful for me.

So yeah, I'm very, very grateful for them.

Okay. And then yeah, I think I'm gonna stop this bit here.

So those are the kind of main schools in the sort of England, Wales, Scotland.

I'm really sorry if I've forgotten any others and I know that in the so called us there's

like a million and one other options.

So I'm going to talk about those next in terms

of like continuous continual professional development, if that makes sense and kind of

ongoing learning.

Thanks so much for listening to the Frontline Herbalism podcast.

You can find the transcript, the links, all the resources from the

show@solidarityapothecary.org podcast.