92 – Learning Herbalism, Part One

Welcome to the Frontline Herbalism Podcast with your host, Nicole Rose, from the

Solidarity Apothecary.

This is your place for all things plants and

liberation.

Let's get started.

Hello.

Welcome back to the Frontline Herbalism

Podcast.

Thank you so much to everyone who's enrolled in the Herbalism PTSD and Traumatic stress

course.

It really.

Yeah, it really means everything to me.

I think I get so anxious beforehand that no

one's going to join and.

Like, you. Yeah. And then I'm always just blown away by people's emails and, like,

people's support for the course and, like, people get in touch who've done it before and

say how helpful it's been and things.

So I'm just.

Yeah, I'm so grateful.

I don't know if you can hear my snoring dog.

We've got a rescued French bulldog called Beau, who maybe some of you have seen in my

Instagram stories,

and he gets quite jealous of the baby.

He's doing really well.

Like, he's adapting really well.

But my partner and his mum have taken the baby

out so I can work.

And so I've got a little bit of, like, time with Beau on the sofa recording podcasts, but

he is a loud snorer, so I'm really sorry.

If you can hear him, I could kick him out, but

I just.

I feel bad.

So, anyway,

okay, so in this episode, I wanted to talk about learning herbalism, because it is a

question I get all the time, is, where did you study?

Where did you train?

How do you know so much about plants? Which always makes me laugh because I think

wherever you are in your sort of field, so to speak.

Like, which, yeah, as a metaphor, seems funny for herbalist, but you know what I mean, like,

you always feel like you don't know enough.

Like, and with herbalism, there's just so much to learn.

Like, constantly, it's just, like, unrelenting.

Which is like, the best part of herbalism is that you're just learning all the time.

So, yeah, I just want to give the disclaimer before I jump in that, like,

yeah, it's such a long learning journey, and I'm going to be talking about some of the

different sort of approaches that I've kind of,

like, utilized in my life to learn about herbalism and where they've taken me and their

strengths and advantages.

But, yeah, I just want to emphasize that it's like, it's not one or the other.

Right.

It's like, all of it mashed together.

Okay. But anyway, so my biggest lessons in learning herbalism.

I guess number one for me is intimacy with plants.

So a lot of you will know my story that I started doing, like, distance learning courses

in herbalism in prison.

And that was because I was surrounded by plants in there, in the prison courtyards.

Like, not surrounded by plants.

It wasn't like some gorgeous botanical garden

or something, But I was surrounded in the sense that, like, I worked in the prison

gardens, and, like, they were just ****** little concrete courtyards with some beds and,

like, a concrete.

Massive concrete area and a big, like, lawn of

grass.

But, like,

they were my plants.

Does that make sense?

And I mean, intimacy in the sense that I saw those same plants every single day.

I mean, not every day.

Like, we would get rotated around the house

blocks to manage the land.

Like, sorry, I'm using a weird metaphor today.

Not manage the land, but we would get rotated

around different house blocks to cut the grass and, like, quote, unquote, weed the beds.

But for me, it was like, the intimacy, like, the seeing the same plants every day.

Seeing them month after month.

Seeing them when they're, you know, curled up

in the winter and it's just a root.

Seeing them in the summer when they're in full flower.

Seeing them when they've gone to seed, you know, like, and it is that intimacy.

And I remember getting some, like, reading some, like, wild food blog, and they were

talking about having, like, a path where you walk every day so you can see those plants.

Like, whether that's, you know, on your way to work or college or whatever.

It's like something where you're going regularly and you can witness the changes.

I know other people call it like a kind of sit spot.

Like a place where you go where you can literally just observe.

So you can sit somewhere outside and just, you know, journal on what you're seeing.

You know, are you seeing, like, plants? Like, what kinds of plants are they?

Are you seeing birds, insects? What's the weather?

What's the temperature? What are the winds?

Like? All of this is, like, about intimacy, right?

And I guess I'm speaking this to people who are, like, you know, maybe not necessarily

just in England and Wales, because I know loads of people listen to this, but people who

are, like,

divorced from the land in terms of, like, colonialism and the fact that it's been

generations of people, you know, displaced from land to, you know, feed the industrial

revolution and whatever, and that most people in my generation know, like, absolutely

nothing about plants.

You know, we know more corporate logos than we do.

We can barely name, like, five plants does that make sense?

So it's like, I just want to acknowledge that, like, that is the starting place for most

people.

Like, that is the starting place for me.

I know some people will have,

you know, will be.

Be indigenous and have, you know, just this,

like, amazing embodied intimacy with the land and huge, like, plant knowledge pass through

generations.

And.

Yeah, I just think, like, most.

A lot of people in this kind of, like,

capitalist culture, like, don't have that plant knowledge.

So we are, like, kind of starting from scratch, and it really does feel like learning

a whole new language, you know, like, when I first learned herbalism,

like, I just thought there was no way I would ever get it, like, in the sense of there was,

like, a million plant names, and they were all in Latin, and I'm, like, dyslexic, and it's,

like, really hard to, like, you know, understand what they're saying.

And, you know, it was like this family, and this is the mint family, and this is the rose

family.

And I just, like, couldn't see the

similarities between these different plants.

So I'm just.

Yeah, I just want to soothe you that, like, if

that's where you are, then that is perfect.

And, like, that is an amazing starting point.

And that's where I was, too.

Right.

So, yeah, like, kind of.

Yeah. Having that back to basics, kind of, like, intimacy with herbs, I think, is a

wonderful place to start.

And, you know, like, the Prisoner's Herbal Book is, like, a really fantastic book in the

sense that it just profiles, like, 10 plants really, really deeply.

So it's not like, get this herbal book, and there's 300 herbs in there from all over the

world, and you've got to somehow know all of the recommendations and contraindications and

all of this stuff.

No, it's like, hey, these are, like, 10 plants that are, like, found most corners of the

planet.

What are their properties?

What are their qualities? What's their history?

And, yeah, just kind of starting from there.

I did do an Instagram post once which was, like, called, like, begin with one plant.

And that's the approach I share in my herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress course is

like,

having that one herb that you get to know really well, you know, that you experiment

with that plant, you know, like, so, like, in prison, for example, like, dandelions were

everywhere.

So it was like, I got to know how they tasted, how the leaves tasted, how the leaves tasted

when they were young and crisp, how they tasted when they were, like, old and a bit

minging.

And I probably shouldn't have eaten them.

You know, how their flowers tasted, how their

leaves tasted in hot water, how their leaves tasted in a tea that had been left overnight

in a really strong infusion.

And how that compared to, like, how their roots tasted.

And, you know, what do their roots taste like when they're fried in a stir fry?

Like, it was not that I can make a stir fry in prison, but I just mean, like,

yeah, it's like, really about not going, like, super wide really fast, but going deep with a

plant and then building that kind of medicine cabinet up over time.

So it's like, I've spent a few months working with dandelion, and I know dandelion really

well.

Right now, hawthorn is in flower.

I'm going to get to know hawthorn.

You know, I'm going to go sit by hawthorn tree every day for, like, two weeks for, like, five

minutes while I drink my cup of tea.

And, you know, I'm going to receive things from that tree.

And I know this sounds like real left field hippie, but, like,

you know, it is, like, that's how plants communicate with us.

So, yeah, anyway, I just wanted to start by saying, like, yeah, one approach is just this

kind of like, go deep, start with one plant.

And for me, like, in prison,

those restraints were kind of expansive in the sense that not being able to access the

Internet or loads of her books or 500 tinctures at the whole food store, it was

like, actually that enabled that intimacy with those few plants.

So, you know, and if sticking to one plant feels really challenging, then maybe you work

with three, you know, and you get to know three.

If you just like, like bouncing around, different interests and things, like, you

know, everyone's really different.

But yeah, I'm just trying to say, go, go.

Intimate.

Hello.

Okay. And the next kind of approach, I guess, is kind of like diy, like, do it yourself.

Kind of follow your passion and your interest.

So, for example, when I got out of prison and I'd had some grants in prison to do some

distance learning courses,

I did actually want to do a herbal medicine degree.

And unfortunately, I didn't finish, like, A levels at college because I left home when I

was 16.

So it would have meant, like, going to, like, formal kind of education again, which, you

know, I'm not against.

And also, I was still, like, on license from prison.

It was still, you know, there was like, still a high risk that I would get recalled back to

prison.

And I actually contacted the National Institute medical Herbalists and explained my

conviction.

Hey, I went to prison for this animal

Aberration campaign.

And yeah, and they were basically kind of like, you're not welcome.

They wanted me to write a statement about my quote unquote crimes and that I promised to

never bring herbalism into disrepute and that I showed kind of remorse.

And I didn't even show remorse to the judge, do you know what I mean?

I didn't even like, submit any paperwork during the sentencing or anything of good

character or anything.

I just was so hardline, militant.

Hey, like, I'm proud of taking direct action

for animals and to stop, you know, thousands of animals being basically like tortured in

this laboratory.

And that.

Yeah, I'm not going to show remorse even if

that gives me a longer time in prison.

So I'm definitely not going to do that for a

herbal medicine organization.

So I couldn't access the kind of degree courses.

And also,

maybe it was like a limiting belief, but like, I really had this feeling of like,

I don't feel like I can go to university.

Like, I had a lot of kind of stuff going on of

like, there's no way I could afford it.

Like, how would I support myself?

Like, and yeah, and I think maybe on reflection, I probably could have got like

financial support from someone to do that and got loans and kind of do what all the other

students do.

Right. But for some reason I just felt like it wasn't for me.

And I think I've had to like,

unlearn a lot of that stuff of like, actually like, I am good enough and smart enough to be

in these education spaces that always felt so alienating because of like, class stuff.

But that's like a whole other podcast.

But I just want to say, like, again, that sort

of restriction of like, hey, I can't just go and do this herbal medicine degree kind of

like fired me up of like, okay, well, I'm just gonna educate myself then.

Like, I'm just gonna go for it.

You know, I had like no money to my name.

I was like signing on jsa, like having all these probation appointments, just like,

yeah, it was, you know, a difficult period.

I was also just sort of like hit with PTSD

after prison and stuff.

But again, like, it enabled like this kind of

concept of like self foraging, of like, you know, listening to everything under the sun,

watching every YouTube video, reading all these articles,

getting books out from the library.

Like, I devoured like all of these kind of

like free resources, if that makes sense.

And I think,

yeah, I think it's so hard, you know, like back then, I mean, Instagram probably existed,

but I wasn't on it, but it was like,

it felt like the volume of information we're exposed to now is like, you know, 50 times

what it was then.

But even then there was like so much information online and it was like, wonderful

to me that I could access that.

And I'm so grateful for all the herbalists who

are kind of content creators of sharing this knowledge for free.

I think the challenges with that is that you don't get,

you don't get like the full picture.

So you're getting little parts of things,

right? Like it's like walking into a forest and you

learn about this plant and this tree and this soil type.

You don't look at it like an ecosystem of, you know, how are the leaves falling from the

trees, you know, feeding the biology in the soil and that's like supporting the root

health and blah, blah, blah.

Like you don't see that, like,

systems perspective.

You just sort of get the,

like the fruits, if that makes sense.

You just get these little tidbits and, you

know, you can piece them together really well and they're always useful.

You know, like, I'm always drawing on like random little things I've read and picked up

from various, you know, podcasts and things.

But it's a very time consuming, kind of,

yeah, non systematic, I guess, approach to learning herbalism.

But it's, I think it's a fantastic way to learn herbalism if,

you know, you don't want to become like a quote unquote clinical herbalist.

And you know, I can dissect the hierarchy between home herbalists and community

herbalists and clinical herbalists and all this bullshit.

But really, like, if you don't want to kind of like have medical knowledge, but you just want

to have plant knowledge so that you can make basic things for yourself, you can grow

plants, you can get to know them, then I think this, this route is like really fantastic and

is kind of accessible.

So yeah, I think it's, I think it's, yeah, very enlivening and you can kind of like

follow your curiosity and your passion in that moment.

So it's like I develop a chest infection, so then I get really interested in antiviral

herbs or herbs that help with coughs or different types of cough,

like are they wet or dry or damp or whatever.

And I think like that kind of just in time

learning is, is really effective.

And I'll talk about that a little bit later as well.

But yeah, I think.

Oh yeah.

And the other thing I wanted to say is, like, if you Know that the herbalist path isn't

going to be your like, big thing in the sense of like, you say you already have some sort

of,

you know, vocation, or you're like super focused on a campaign, or you're a parent, you

know, and a full time stay at home mom or something.

And it's like herbalism is just this like passion, but it's not like your main thing.

Then I think like,

like, I think you can like constantly just follow your curiosity of like doing your own

thing and listening to podcasts in the background or listening to podcasts when

you're driving or, you know, reading reels or Instagram posts or whatever from herbalists

who are writing about plants.

Like, I think that approach is like really wonderful and nourishing.

And I think even if you don't want to be like a quote unquote herbalist, you can still be

really strengthened and nourished by learning about herbalism.

Does that make sense? Sense.

Okay, so that was like thinking about kind of DIY learning in terms of like information.

I also think it's like really, really important for any herbalist of any kind to be

doing like practical things, right?

Like experimentation and medicine making.

Everyone is different.

Like, I'm very much like rule breaker, kind of like, oh, I'll just try it like this and see

if it works and document it and then try again.

And like, I'm very kind of like self directed.

Whereas I think a lot of people can be like

more like they want instructions and they want to know they're doing it right and that's

important to them.

Right. Like, I've had partners that bake cakes who have to follow a recipe like very

specifically.

And I'm literally their worst nightmare

because I'm just like, oh, just check it in.

So,

but yeah, whichever, like way that kind of suits you,

I think, like, you should embrace that in terms of learning.

But I think you always need to complement the book knowledge and the podcast and everything

else with like practicality.

So yeah, like, find whatever works for you.

Like, maybe that means hanging out with a more

experienced person who's into,

who's really into herbalism.

And you can kind of like learn by like

osmosis.

Like one of my best mates who likes to remain

a bit of a like lurker anonymous person.

But like, they would kind of come and hang out with me and we would do like herbal things

together, right? Like foraging and making glycerites and making

ointments and making fireside vinegar and stuff.

And then they sort of like became like increasingly confident with those things

because they'd done them with me.

I mean, they'd also done them on their own, but like other people,

unless they'd done them with me, like for example, on a course, they wouldn't have known

where to start, for example,

or they would have made a medicine and then been like, I don't know if this is like good

quality enough or have I done it right kind of thing.

So yeah, like, I think some folks really need that like face to face stuff.

And I think if I'd had kind of like more like money in my sort of twenties, after I got out

of prison, like, I would have loved going on more like practical courses.

You know, like the one I teach, the practical medicine making course that I teach, it's like

three days long and we cover like all the things like tinctures, glycerites,

infused oils, ointments.

And it's like I would have loved something

like that.

Like, if I'd have had that when I first got

out of prison, then it would have saved again, like saved a lot of time of me experimenting

of like, okay, well the Internet says it needs this much soy wax,

but actually this feels like.

So I'm gonna put in this ratio of it.

Oh, okay, that works, right? I'll use that.

You know, like, if I'd have just learned from someone experience, then that would have been

faster.

I mean, I'm not into like the whole capitalist, like, oh, we need to save time and

be like super productive and everything is like a waste.

You know, we have to be hyper efficient.

Like I'm not saying that, but I also think like we can kind of like collapse time a

little bit, right.

By learning from people that are experienced

and that's like really powerful.

So yeah, in terms of learning herbalism and finding those opportunities, maybe it means

getting involved in a project like community Apothecary or herbalist Art Borders Bristol or

some other herbalista, for example in Ireland or the so called US is like those being around

people who know how to make medicine,

who know a lot about plants, you're going to be absorbing all that stuff by osmosis.

Um, but yeah, like, I remember hanging out with a herbalist who came to Calais, who's a

really wonderful herbalist and they were saying that on their degree program, like

they, they didn't do like any practical stuff.

Like they didn't have any confidence in medicine making or even like plant

identification stuff they really struggled with.

And they felt like a **** herbalists.

And I was just like ****, like you're an

amazing herbalist.

It's just a **** education,

you know, let's like learn how to make this stuff and then you know, they learn how to

make cough syrup and vinegar and all the things.

So yeah, like I just think like to be a well rounded herbalist, getting those medicine

making skills and foraging skills and horticulture type skills are really,

really important.

I know not everyone has access to land like

you know, with the privilege that I do in terms of my stepdad owning this small holding

and stuff that I've pretty much squatted since I got out of prison.

quid that I'd saved up from doing like 80, 90 hours a week in care work before prison

knowing that I would need to get out and I would need some money.

And yeah, she took it.

So I had nothing when I got out.

And yeah, ended up as in a kind of crisis moving in with my mum and her new partner at

the time.

And like that was really frightening for me because I didn't have a good history with her

partners.

So yeah.

But anyway, it's ******* amazing where I live.

It's paradise if you ever come and visit.

So yeah, I know I'm very aware that most people don't have access to land.

I didn't have gardens and stuff growing up or not huge gardens.

So yeah, I know that being able to like walk around beautiful hedgerows and stuff like is

impossible for everyone.

But you know, there are lots of like awesome kind of urban herbalism projects as well where

people are foraging or doing plant identification walks in graveyards and

allotments and you know, these places that actually have huge amounts of biodiversity.

So yeah, I guess my takeaway with this is just like try and learn the practical things.

You know, you don't have to go to university to do that.

Find other people that love plants.

Like in the herbalism PTSD and traumatic

stress course.

Like I encourage you to really think about

your like herbalism journey in the sense of like finding your crew, you know, like finding

the people you want to learn from, the people you want to organize with,

you know, finding projects to volunteer with.

And you know, it's not just for us, right, and

our learning in a kind of self focused way.

It's also for the outcomes of the project, you

know, whether that's making medicine for refugees in Calais or you know like Bristol

herbalist out borders supporting like refugee mothers for example.

So it's like it's not just for you, but obviously it is a fantastic chance to learn

herbalism.

And one of my sort of goals for this year is

to like, redevelop my herb garden and have like way more people visiting the site, like a

bit more informally, like to do medicine making together.

Not like a paid course, but like, hey, like, I'm going to do some glycerites today for

Calais, can anyone come down? Kind of thing.

Anyway, just try and get your hands in the soil.

Try and get practical experience.

It will teach you, like, so much.

Thanks so much for listening to the Frontline Herbalism Podcast.

You can find the transcript, the links, all the resources from the show at

solidarityapothecary.

Org podcast.