This is part two of a series about learning herbalism. In this episode, Nicole (she/her) talks about the importance of knowing your own learning style to help determine which pathway is right for you. She introduces some of the main herbal schools in the so-called UK and their strengths and weaknesses for different people. Plus much more!
Links & resources from this episode
- Herbalism, PTSD and Traumatic Stress Course – https://solidarityapothecary.org/herbalismandptsdcourse/
Find them all at solidarityapothecary.org/podcast/
Music from Sole & DJ Pain – Battle of Humans | Plant illustrations by @amani_writes | In solidarity, please subscribe, rate & review this podcast wherever you listen.
Transcript
Welcome to the Frontline Herbalism podcast with your host Nicole Rose from the
Nicole:Solidarity Apothecary.
Nicole:This is your place for all things plants and
Nicole:liberation.
Nicole:Let's get started.
Nicole:Hello. Welcome back to the Frontline Herbalism training.
Nicole:So I'm really sorry, I had a bunch of technical issues with my laptop.
Nicole:I had a bunch of kind of baby interruption issues.
Nicole:So it, yeah, instead of kind of doing like one really long thorough episode about your kind
Nicole:of herbalism learning journey, I've actually split the audio into three, three shows.
Nicole:So yeah, the last one was focusing on the importance of like intimacy with plants and
Nicole:getting to know a few plants in a lot of detail and depth.
Nicole:And then I was also talking about the kind of diy, like follow your passion approach of sort
Nicole:of self foraging different kind of free sources of information and then finally
Nicole:talking about like experimentation and the kind of importance of practical skills and
Nicole:medicine making.
Nicole:This episode I'm going to be talking about kind of learning styles.
Nicole:I go off on a side tangent about learning styles but really knowing yourself in depth so
Nicole:that you can decide the right kind of clinical training for you if that's your herbalism
Nicole:pathway.
Nicole:And that isn't just big programs, that's also kind of smaller online programs, you know.
Nicole:And I'm going to talk about some of the main ones, the so called UK and also some in the US
Nicole:that I've done as well.
Nicole:And then yeah, the next episode is going to be talking about kind of mentoring and finding
Nicole:people to learn from that you feel affinity with.
Nicole:And also this kind of like continual professional development stuff like how to
Nicole:kind of, you know, integrate herbs into your sort of lifelong learning journey and yeah,
Nicole:designing your learning pathway.
Nicole:So I hope this episode is useful.
Nicole:I do like say a couple of disclaimers in there of like, please, for every school I've
Nicole:mentioned, please speak to graduates who know it well.
Nicole:You know, read the website, read the prospectuses,
Nicole:talk to the tutors.
Nicole:Like I don't want anyone to make their
Nicole:learning decisions based on what I've said and the tiny snippets of information I've got.
Nicole:And I definitely don't want to misrepresent any kind of programs of learning.
Nicole:Like I would be upset if someone did that about my PTSD course.
Nicole:Right.
Nicole:So yeah, so take what I say with a pinch of
Nicole:salt.
Nicole:I'm just, yeah, I have met a lot of students
Nicole:and graduates and to different programs and I'm trying to be kind of like tactful and talk
Nicole:about their strengths and weaknesses.
Nicole:But anyway, yeah, please like do Your thorough research into all the options and speak to
Nicole:people with lived experience of a course.
Nicole:Because they're the.
Nicole:Yeah, they're the best people to talk to.
Nicole:Okay, thanks so much.
Nicole:And yeah, just shameless reminder.
Nicole:The herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress course is still open for enrollment.
Nicole:I'm in this kind of like launch period where I'm just promoting it the best I can.
Nicole:Yeah, please share it with your friends and your networks and your herbal Facebook groups
Nicole:and your communities.
Nicole:Anyone you know that will benefit from
Nicole:learning about herbalism, from learning about trauma and the politics of trauma, just.
Nicole:Yeah, point them in my direction.
Nicole:I would really, really appreciate that.
Nicole:As you know, I'm like a kind of one woman show at the moment.
Nicole:And obviously I, you know, I organize and have a massive network of people around the world
Nicole:that I'm in relationship with.
Nicole:But I just mean in the sense that it's really, really hard with the baby to get a lot done.
Nicole:And yeah, I'm just, you know, this is my kind of livelihood.
Nicole:And this is how I fund all of the work with the apothecary, all of the prisoner's herbal
Nicole:books, all of the care packages.
Nicole:It like subsidizes me to support people one to one and do like all the other millions of
Nicole:things.
Nicole:So, yeah, I just really, really, really
Nicole:appreciate your solidarity in sharing the course.
Nicole:All right, let me know what you think of this episode or this little series about learning
Nicole:herbalism.
Nicole:Okay, thanks so much.
Nicole:Take care.
Nicole:Bye.
Nicole:All right, so now I'm going to talk about more sort of structured clinical training.
Nicole:Or I guess it doesn't have to be clinical training, but I'm going to talk about kind of
Nicole:structured learning.
Nicole:And I mean that in the sense that like someone
Nicole:else has structured it so you're kind of able to like sink into someone else's system.
Nicole:Like they've organized the information, you know, they've put things into modules or
Nicole:lessons into sort of thematic topics.
Nicole:And you can work through those either in a sort of linear way or in a way like the
Nicole:herbalism, PTSD and traumatic stress course, where you can kind of like bounce around and
Nicole:kind of follow your interests.
Nicole:But there's still like that structure there.
Nicole:So I think, yeah, this.
Nicole:And this is the main question.
Nicole:I get a lot about my clinical training.
Nicole:But I think before I talk about some of the
Nicole:different options, I think any successful kind of course of learning,
Nicole:it really demands that you know yourself and your needs and your learning style and also
Nicole:your nervous system, in my opinion.
Nicole:So when I did my, like, I just did like as levels at college before, I just, yeah, I just
Nicole:couldn't do it anymore.
Nicole:Had lots of stuff going on and it wasn't like
Nicole:fulfilling me.
Nicole:I remember doing a assessment which was like looking at your learning style and it was
Nicole:quite reductionist.
Nicole:So it was only like 20 questions.
Nicole:Like, it's not like strong science or anything, but 19 out of 20 of these questions
Nicole:I got concrete sequential learner, which means, like, I need like tangible things that
Nicole:are very like concrete and practical in a sort of sequence.
Nicole:So, yeah, maybe that's why I like things like spreadsheets and bullet points.
Nicole:Like, people will be very interested of how I organize information.
Nicole:Like, my partner wants to write a book about addiction and sort of, you know, class and
Nicole:poverty and stuff around, you know, how people who use drugs are so dehumanized and stuff.
Nicole:But that's kind of sort of autobiographical and he's really struggled to organize that
Nicole:content into any sort of framework or chapters.
Nicole:And, you know, we literally went for coffees before the baby came along and within like
Nicole:half an hour we'd like outlined his book.
Nicole:And he was just like, I haven't been able to do that ever.
Nicole:And you know, he's got adhd, so like his, he's got his own sort of neurodiversity.
Nicole:But for me, like, I'm so sort of sequenced.
Nicole:You're probably like laughing at this, being
Nicole:like, nah, Nicole, you're bouncing around all over the place on this podcast.
Nicole:But for me, like,
Nicole:I really struggle with like, for example, like super waffly teachers or really abstract
Nicole:things.
Nicole:Like, I, you know, I had an ex who got a
Nicole:degree in philosophy and I was just like,
Nicole:yeah, I'm just not, I'm just not getting this.
Nicole:Like, I'm not interested.
Nicole:No, it's not.
Nicole:I'm not interested.
Nicole:But yeah, like, for me it's like, why are we like thinking about this when like this and
Nicole:this needs doing or the washing up needs doing or do you know what I mean?
Nicole:So anyway, I think know your learning style and I know that models of learning styles are
Nicole:sort of a little bit outdated and they also can be a bit reductionist.
Nicole:Like, we can think that we're one thing and actually maybe we're not, or maybe that's like
Nicole:a limiting kind of belief or mindset that we've got.
Nicole:So,
Nicole:yeah, for example, I know for me that I'm hypervisual.
Nicole:I love graphs and pictures and frameworks and systems and structures and I really struggle
Nicole:with like long form kind of essay type content.
Nicole:Like, I enrolled in this foot health course because I really want to develop my foot
Nicole:health skills for Calais and I should have asked more questions before buying just the
Nicole:theoretical side of the course.
Nicole:But like, it's all like assignments and loads of reading, but like proper academic essays.
Nicole:And you know, I studied with the plant medicine school and we did have to write, you
Nicole:know, ******* a million and one assignments.
Nicole:But they weren't, it wasn't like.
Nicole:And you needed to reference things, but it
Nicole:wasn't like that kind of like hardcore academia where there's like, you know, you get
Nicole:marked down if you haven't put it in the right format or something, you know.
Nicole:So I just, I was just like, oh God, like, what have I got myself into?
Nicole:Because like the courses that suit my learning styles the most are ones where I can watch
Nicole:videos I can watch, you know, I can look at people's like wonderful PowerPoints and
Nicole:slides.
Nicole:There's like this,
Nicole:oh God, my brain.
Nicole:I think it's even just like botanical
Nicole:medicine.org but it's like more focused on sort of like naturopath types.
Nicole:But they've got loads of herbal medicine content.
Nicole:And I did their,
Nicole:they call it substance disorder,
Nicole:substance use disorder series, but it was like just about kind of herbs and harm reduction
Nicole:and recovery from opiate use and stuff because of what me and like what my partner was going
Nicole:through.
Nicole:And like, I love their format because you can watch the videos but you can also download the
Nicole:slides, which is perfect for me because then I can annotate them or refer back to them.
Nicole:Because you're never going to remember this information, right?
Nicole:Like it's going to go in.
Nicole:But I have a whole Google Drive of all of my
Nicole:clinical training documents that I constantly scan and return to because the brain can only
Nicole:hold so much information, especially when you have a new baby.
Nicole:So you know, you need to have like some external place where that information is
Nicole:stored that you can revisit.
Nicole:There's just too much for our brains in my opinion.
Nicole:Obviously like, you do absorb a lot, especially if you're working with herbalism
Nicole:all the time, you know, like when I was seeing clients after my clinical training, like one
Nicole:to one support for people, I, you know, it was just constantly on the tip of my tongue.
Nicole:But now I'm a bit like my brain.
Nicole:I need to like check that.
Nicole:So, yeah, anyway, this is like a long rant about learning styles.
Nicole:But like choose the format that will work for you because everyone is different.
Nicole:Like my friend Kez for example, who's amazing trans femme who's written all These like
Nicole:amazing books.
Nicole:Like she's just like, Nicole, I hate Instagram
Nicole:because I hate pictures.
Nicole:She.
Nicole:But she loves text, right?
Nicole:So she edited my Herbalism Estate violence book and we did it all on like Google Docs and
Nicole:she would go through and edit.
Nicole:But like that's her.
Nicole:She just loves like written format and for me it just, it just doesn't work.
Nicole:So yeah, just know your learning style.
Nicole:So if I'm going to enroll in online courses I'm always like, how high quality are their
Nicole:learning materials? Am I just watching people talk or are they, do
Nicole:they have PowerPoints?
Nicole:Do they have handouts? Can I listen on the move for example?
Nicole:Like some people are very like what they call like kinesthetic learners.
Nicole:So they want that practical hands on thing which I've talked about with herbalism.
Nicole:And I think herbalism attracts a lot of people that want those sort of like tangible skills
Nicole:or kind of like crafty skills.
Nicole:But sometimes it's actually that you are, you just need to move your body.
Nicole:So like I will listen a lot while I'm like, I go for a long walk every day with Lee in the
Nicole:peram and I listen to podcasts or you know, online courses I've enrolled in or something.
Nicole:And like that just helps me integrate that information because my nickname as a kid was
Nicole:Fidget because I couldn't sort of sit still and just be forced to listen to a teacher, for
Nicole:example.
Nicole:So yeah, choose a course that's going to be, that is going to suit your learning style.
Nicole:Likewise like some people are not self structured in the sense that they will feel
Nicole:overwhelmed, they don't know where to start,
Nicole:they will get sort of lost and they need like either some sort of group component or like
Nicole:group accountability or they need like deadlines and external structures in order to
Nicole:kind of force them to do something.
Nicole:So you know, like I've had the odd person enroll in the herbalism PTSD course and
Nicole:they're like, they email me and they're like, actually I'm.
Nicole:This isn't going to work for me and my brain because they need like a group to, you know,
Nicole:to cheer them on, to check in with them,
Nicole:to feel like accountable to.
Nicole:Whereas like I'm actually quite the opposite of I really.
Nicole:Yeah, like I kind of struggle with like that kind of like enforced socializing if that
Nicole:makes sense.
Nicole:Like if I'm in a room and I'm at a course,
Nicole:like I'll always be sociable and friendly.
Nicole:Like I'm very extroverted.
Nicole:But in the sense of like learning in Order to
Nicole:focus.
Nicole:I think probably because of a trauma thing of
Nicole:like constantly scanning everyone's stuff, all of their feelings, what nervous system state
Nicole:they're in.
Nicole:I find like group environments very difficult energetically.
Nicole:If I'm in a class, I will be, you know, just feeling a bit unsafe, if I'm honest in the
Nicole:sense of like, not that I'm actually physically unsafe, but that my nervous system
Nicole:is activated by everyone around me.
Nicole:And for some people they need that to learn and they bounce off everyone's ideas and their
Nicole:excitement and their energy.
Nicole:Whereas I think for me to really absorb
Nicole:something, I have to actually really be alone.
Nicole:And maybe that's like an Aquarius air sign thing.
Nicole:But yeah, just really before you enroll in a course, just really think about what suits you
Nicole:in terms of that.
Nicole:There's also a thing around kind of like
Nicole:pacing.
Nicole:Right.
Nicole:So some courses are like three year degree
Nicole:programs where it's really high pressure, a lot of deadlines, like and often a lot of
Nicole:******* burnout.
Nicole:If I'm honest that I witness.
Nicole:Um, and other courses it is a part time thing and you can kind of go at your own pace again.
Nicole:Everyone is so different.
Nicole:Which is why like real self reflection about
Nicole:this is important.
Nicole:Because some people, it's like, I don't know if people have heard of like Parkinson's law
Nicole:where it's like an activity will expand to the time you've got to like time you've got
Nicole:available.
Nicole:So if you've got half an hour to get ready, it will take you half an hour.
Nicole:If you've got an hour and a half, it could potentially take you half an hour and a half.
Nicole:If you've got 10 minutes because you overslept, you've got 10 minutes.
Nicole:Does that make sense? So I think there's like a strong.
Nicole:Humans are just like very good at potentially taking longer than they need or.
Nicole:Yeah.
Nicole:And so I think like when there isn't a
Nicole:deadline or there isn't like a kind of, you know, like for me with my clinical training
Nicole:there was like this kind of like external driver of like I really wanted to be a
Nicole:herbalist.
Nicole:Like I was so desperate to kind of graduate and crack on with it.
Nicole:And I really didn't enjoy my job at the time.
Nicole:Like I was working part time for this thing
Nicole:called corporate watch.
Nicole:And like it was really, to a really fantastic crew but like it was so poorly paid and I was
Nicole:like researching stuff around prison and it was like worsening my PTSD like every single
Nicole:day.
Nicole:But like I don't.
Nicole:Yeah, I, I Think because of my criminal record
Nicole:and stuff from my childhood, like I've been.
Nicole:I have a perception of like, oh, I'm not going
Nicole:to get a job anywhere.
Nicole:And you know, I live like quite rurally and stuff.
Nicole:And like my politics is like difficult to, you know, like when I used to do care work and
Nicole:stuff.
Nicole:You need like a.
Nicole:I'm so sorry.
Nicole:My Audacity software that I record podcasts on
Nicole:keeps crashing so I'm a little bit stop start.
Nicole:But ye.
Nicole:I was basically saying is that sometimes we need sort of speed to, you know, to complete
Nicole:something and people need like deadlines to focus and structure themselves and their work.
Nicole:Sometimes you have like some sort of economic pressure.
Nicole:Like for example I was saying about I. I just had to ******* leave my job.
Nicole:Like, I was so sick of it.
Nicole:I was researching about prisons and doing a lot of research and writing work which is a
Nicole:kind of like learned strength.
Nicole:But it's not like my like natural flowy
Nicole:strength, if that makes sense.
Nicole:And yeah, just constantly interacting with prison, prison, prison, which was just harming
Nicole:my mental health so much and it was like so poorly paid and I just was going nowhere.
Nicole:So for me, herbalism felt like this really sort of expansive opportunity and I just
Nicole:couldn't sort of wait to be kind of quote unquote qualified to practice.
Nicole:So yeah, so basically before I dive into like some of the courses that are available, I
Nicole:think like knowing your learning style is so important.
Nicole:And I also mentioned the importance of your nervous system and embracing a huge body of
Nicole:learning is like very, can be very stressful.
Nicole:It can also be ******* wonderful.
Nicole:Like, I had a friend stay who'd been training with Heartwood, who I, who I'll talk about
Nicole:later.
Nicole:And they were like, oh, you know, like which part of your training did you like not enjoy?
Nicole:And I was like, what do you mean? And they were like, you know, like which bit
Nicole:did you hate? Like, and I was like,
Nicole:oh, like actually I loved like all the topics.
Nicole:Like I couldn't like, I love the anatomy and
Nicole:physiology and the pathology stuff and learning about health and disease.
Nicole:Like, I love learning about plants.
Nicole:I loved you know, like the prescribing stuff.
Nicole:Like, and I was just like a bit stumped of
Nicole:like oh, I actually can't think of what I didn't like.
Nicole:Like I absolutely loved it.
Nicole:I used to get up at 5 in the morning and work on things and you know, like I would do like I
Nicole:just literally spent every spare second I could doing my course and learning and self
Nicole:educating and you know, I was Kind of in my element, if that makes sense.
Nicole:Which is why I know that like herbalism is right for me.
Nicole:But I'm just saying that if you kind of go down that route of a big course, then I think
Nicole:you need to know that you feel resourced enough for it.
Nicole:I would love to do further training.
Nicole:I would love to study paramedic science for
Nicole:example.
Nicole:I love doing, I've done the first responder,
Nicole:first response emergency care frac4 course, which is, I guess it's a kind of EMT thing,
Nicole:emergency medicine technician, but we don't really have that framework in the uk.
Nicole:But like I would love to go down that route one day for example.
Nicole:But I know like doing some sort of degree or big course of study, it's just like not
Nicole:compatible with a newborn baby and you know, trying to have a livelihood and running the
Nicole:apothecary and stuff.
Nicole:So it's like, I know it's not the right moment right now,
Nicole:so I think like you have to know that and it's not always the right time.
Nicole:Like sometimes you just have to like jump off a cliff and kind of go for it, if that makes
Nicole:sense.
Nicole:But I do think like again, just a self awareness is really important and that's why I
Nicole:created the herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress course is like, it's very structured in
Nicole:the sense that there's clear modules, there's clear learning outcomes and aims and like I'm
Nicole:not a big waffler like that.
Nicole:You know, the lessons are kind of as discreet as they can be while trying to go into depth.
Nicole:And there's big resource libraries so you can kind of self forage and compliment what I'm
Nicole:sharing with you.
Nicole:Um,
Nicole:but it is like a gift to the nervous system in the sense that there's no one like hounding
Nicole:you to submit an assignment or you know, meet a deadline that you just like don't have the
Nicole:sort of nervous system capacity to do.
Nicole:Like there's no overwhelming kind of forums or group calls or you know, so it's kind of like
Nicole:gentle and nourishing and you can set your own pace.
Nicole:And for me, like that was the only option I could think of where actually it could like
Nicole:support people's nervous systems and not harm them.
Nicole:Because I've seen, you know, I think that's also why I dropped out of formal education as
Nicole:a kid was like my nervous system was so smashed with having a partner in prison,
Nicole:having a best friend with cancer, moving out at 16, like having no money, like dealing with
Nicole:all this childhood Trauma stuff like how the hell am I going to have the spoons and the
Nicole:resources to then,
Nicole:you know, do some like massive degree that takes loads of time and energy and money, if
Nicole:that makes sense.
Nicole:Um, so it's like choosing a mode of study that
Nicole:is like nourishing for you.
Nicole:And you know, maybe that's like enrolling in a year long course where you can go once a month
Nicole:for a weekend and just go foraging and you just want to be outside, you just want to be
Nicole:with people, you just want to be with plants.
Nicole:You don't want to read a ******* PDF, you just want to like do the outdoor thing.
Nicole:Like, maybe that's what your body needs right now.
Nicole:Or maybe you are like intellectually kind of hungry for that herbalism knowledge.
Nicole:And you know, you really want to be a clinical herbalist.
Nicole:You really want to do it full time, you know, in your bones.
Nicole:It's your passion.
Nicole:And you do want to like, you know, go all in
Nicole:on a training program.
Nicole:And sometimes you just don't know, right? Sometimes you have to jump in and then be
Nicole:like, hey, this isn't working for me actually.
Nicole:And I saw that like, I think our, you know,
Nicole:different herbal courses have quite high dropout rates sometimes because people are
Nicole:like, they think it's going to be just this like wonderful outdoor adventure.
Nicole:And then actually it's like, wow, like learning about biochemistry is like hard.
Nicole:And you know, learning all these, you know, mechanisms of drugs and pharmaceuticals and
Nicole:how they interact with plant constituents, like, whoa, this isn't what I was expecting,
Nicole:you know, so it's like,
Nicole:you know, you can also just sign up for something and then be like, this isn't really
Nicole:for me.
Nicole:Or, you know, you'll learn something about your learning style.
Nicole:So anyway, this is much longer than I expected to talk about it, but I think it is so
Nicole:foundational is just knowing yourself, knowing your needs and your desires, knowing your
Nicole:capacity, which can change.
Nicole:You know, we can expand our sort of nervous systems like ability to kind of cope with
Nicole:things.
Nicole:And you know,
Nicole:things that are challenging don't have to necessarily be stressful.
Nicole:You know, like training didn't necessarily put me in a big kind of fight or flight response
Nicole:because I love learning so much and it was so joyful for me and the kind of workaholism
Nicole:tendencies of distracting from all the stuff was really pleasurable.
Nicole:But yeah, just, just kind of like reflect on where you're at and what you need and what
Nicole:courses are likely compatible with you,
Nicole:ideally before jumping in or spending lots of money or, you know, Embarking on something.
Nicole:Okay, so I'm not going to go into lots of depth about all the options because it would
Nicole:be endless podcasts about endless programs.
Nicole:And I'm aware that lots of people listen to
Nicole:this who aren't just in like England, Wales or Scotland for example.
Nicole:But I will talk about like some of the main sort of schools or options to learn and then a
Nicole:couple of my favorites from the so called us.
Nicole:But yeah, there are many, many, many more beside these.
Nicole:And I wanted to kind of keep this stuff like a little bit broader than that.
Nicole:But I think to give what I'm going to say more context, I think is useful for you to know
Nicole:like the different things.
Nicole:So for example, unfortunately a lot of the herbal medicine degree programs at
Nicole:universities have closed down over the years.
Nicole:I don't know why that is other than potential funding and prejudice and things like this.
Nicole:But it has really reduced the options and the flexibility for people wanting to kind of
Nicole:really undertake herbalism as a kind of like clinical herbalist path.
Nicole:So for example, I think in the UK like the only degree program left is Lincoln
Nicole:University.
Nicole:And I know they have part time options as
Nicole:well.
Nicole:And I've met like a bunch of people who've
Nicole:been to Lincoln, a couple have come to Calais and I do think they have been like really
Nicole:fantastic herbalists in terms of,
Nicole:I think all the kind of diagnosis stuff is like very thorough.
Nicole:People are often quite confident kind of clinically or like medically.
Nicole:I think maybe people have felt frustrated about the lack of practical things on the
Nicole:course.
Nicole:But I do think that is like one of the things that you can quite easily learn on your own or
Nicole:learn elsewhere.
Nicole:Does that make sense?
Nicole:So I think it is quite a sort of strong course,
Nicole:obviously involves living up there or you know, going part time so that you can travel
Nicole:to university.
Nicole:I don't, I'm actually speaking with inaccuracy
Nicole:here because I don't know for sure how their program is structured.
Nicole:But so please check out their website in case I've just like told you a load of nonsense.
Nicole:So yeah, so the degree is obviously, you know, with degrees that you can get loans and
Nicole:things, but they're obviously like very kind of, you know, huge bodies of things to enroll
Nicole:in.
Nicole:But yeah, it's definitely, you know, it's definitely an option and, and you know, a
Nicole:great one if that's for you.
Nicole:And then there is an organization called Heartwood, which I think a lot of people have
Nicole:heard of.
Nicole:So they offer clinical herbalism training
Nicole:which is accredited by the National Institute of Medical herbalists, which are like the main
Nicole:body in the so called UK that a kind of herbalist can register with.
Nicole:And I'm currently creating another online course at the moment called do no Harm about
Nicole:like safe practice, you know, in projects like Cali and stuff.
Nicole:And yeah, I talk about some of the, the frameworks around people that are pro
Nicole:statutory regulation being regulated by the state kind of formal professional bodies.
Nicole:You know, some of the strengths of that in terms of codes of ethics and standards of
Nicole:practice and like sort of rigorous curriculums and things and then also like some of the
Nicole:weaknesses of that.
Nicole:But anyway, so yeah, so if you want to be an accredited herbalist like basically in the uk
Nicole:like herbalism isn't regulated.
Nicole:Some people have been fighting for regulation and I, if you are one of those people, I doubt
Nicole:you've been listening to this podcast because you'll know that I'm an anarchist and I'm
Nicole:trying to build a world the state.
Nicole:So I definitely don't want a kind of profession that's got thousands of years of
Nicole:practice and you know, embeddedness in communities to be something that becomes the
Nicole:monopoly of people that have only had a certain form of education.
Nicole:Anyway, that is like another massive podcast side note.
Nicole:But what I'm trying to say is for some people it is actually really important to them that
Nicole:they are accredited in the sense that they have like registration with the National
Nicole:Institute Medical Herbalists.
Nicole:And that you know, maybe they also want a degree so that they can go on to do like
Nicole:further Master's degrees or PhDs.
Nicole:Like some people just know from the get go
Nicole:that they want to go down the sort of research ethnobotany type route.
Nicole:So rock and roll if that's you.
Nicole:But yeah, Hartwood offer a course that is accredited by nim,
Nicole:this National Institute Medical Herbalists.
Nicole:And yeah, I've met like a lot of Hartwood
Nicole:graduates and yeah, it's been, it's been a lot of mixed reviews.
Nicole:I think people value a lot of the content and think it's incredibly thorough.
Nicole:But I think there is like, and I'm probably going to offend and upset people here but like
Nicole:a little bit of a like kind of macho grueling atmosphere of like a huge volume of work, a
Nicole:lot of deadlines, you have to just ******* grin and bear it.
Nicole:Maybe not that much student support from what I've heard.
Nicole:But this is just herbal rumors.
Nicole:So I do not want to cause them a disservice
Nicole:because I'm sure other people have had really fantastic experiences with them.
Nicole:But it is a flexible program in terms of being able to,
Nicole:you know, study at home and you have to do like a whole bunch of clinical hours, like at
Nicole:least 500 clinical hours.
Nicole:So you have to go to clinics and kind of
Nicole:apprentice with clinical herbalists.
Nicole:But, yeah, most of the kind of education is.
Nicole:Is what you're doing on your own, but it's like highly, highly structured.
Nicole:So it's like, you have to do this by this point.
Nicole:And yeah, for some of my friends, they really, really value that and they really need that to
Nicole:get stuff done.
Nicole:So that is for them.
Nicole:That is 100%.
Nicole:Not for me.
Nicole:I. It's literally unbearable for me to have to
Nicole:do something by a certain date for someone else.
Nicole:But anyway.
Nicole:But yeah, I have heard mixed reviews.
Nicole:But I've also.
Nicole:A lot of people, you know, are just kind of
Nicole:cracking on with it and it has been expensive for them in terms of learning herbalism and
Nicole:introduce them to whole worlds of herbalism stuff and, you know,
Nicole:a bit more kind of clinically confident.
Nicole:Yeah. So. And then there's Botanica, which again, and I'm.
Nicole:I, Yeah, I really don't know.
Nicole:Don't wanna.
Nicole:I don't want someone to choose between these programs based on what I'm saying because I'm
Nicole:getting, like, very limited, sneaky bits of testimonial from people who studied with them.
Nicole:And you know what people are like.
Nicole:Like, you're more likely to complain about something if you've had a negative experience
Nicole:than you are, say, like, oh, this was really wonderful for me.
Nicole:Do you know what I mean?
Nicole:But, yeah, I had.
Nicole:So I have met a few Botanica graduates and
Nicole:again, I think the course is, like, very demanding in terms of,
Nicole:you know, lessons and assignments and things.
Nicole:But unlike Heartwood, you are sort of getting
Nicole:together in a physical location and like, learning together over a weekend.
Nicole:So coming back to that, like, self education,
Nicole:like, learning style, reflection.
Nicole:If you're someone that really benefits from a group environment, from seeing things live,
Nicole:from being able to ask questions, from watching people do things, I think Botanica is
Nicole:like a really great option for people that are like, yeah, that's their kind of, like,
Nicole:kinesthetic, kind of practical learning style.
Nicole:Yeah. So that's.
Nicole:I don't know how long their program is, maybe
Nicole:four years.
Nicole:But again, check out their website, speak to
Nicole:people who've studied with them.
Nicole:And then.
Nicole:Yeah, so I trained with the Plant Medicine
Nicole:school,
Nicole:which at the time were only based in Ireland,
Nicole:and they now have schools based in Exmoor and Somerset as well as in Scotland.
Nicole:So. And I know that the program has radically developed over the years since I graduated,
Nicole:so I think there's probably even more sort of, like, taught content.
Nicole:Sorry, my laptop crashed again.
Nicole:Yeah, so I think there is more, like, taught
Nicole:kind of content.
Nicole:So when I. Yeah, and the kind of last half of the training for me was, like, when the
Nicole:pandemic started.
Nicole:And so the school had to kind of like.
Nicole:Like, everyone just, like, rapidly adapt and move online, which for me was actually really
Nicole:beneficial because I was spending a lot of money,
Nicole:like, trapping.
Nicole:Traveling to Ireland on the ferry with my
Nicole:camper van and that, you know, we used to the clinic and stuff now.
Nicole:And, yeah, it was.
Nicole:It was like, a lot, if that makes sense.
Nicole:So I was kind of, like, very appreciative when all the sort of lectures got put online and
Nicole:got recorded and.
Nicole:But even before then, there was, like, a lot of information.
Nicole:But for me, like, the school had, like, the perfect mix of sort of, like, what I call,
Nicole:like, liberating structure.
Nicole:So there was, like, areas of focus of, like,
Nicole:you know, like, shitloads of assignments you needed to do and, you know, like, clinical
Nicole:training weeks where you're learning a bunch of practical skills.
Nicole:But, like, there was so much freedom to.
Nicole:And I don't know if this is the same now.
Nicole:Like, maybe it's different.
Nicole:So, again, like, check out their perspectives
Nicole:and everything now.
Nicole:But, like,
Nicole:for me, I really felt like it was a school where it was like, you actually just kind of
Nicole:treated like an adult of like, okay, I. You know, it's the skin this month.
Nicole:Here's, like, a few handouts on the skin.
Nicole:Go and learn about it, you know, and then can
Nicole:you do these three assignments about herbal support for eczema or psoriasis or whatever?
Nicole:And it was like, for me, that was, like, so perfect because I could then go and watch a
Nicole:bunch of, like, YouTube videos about, you know, black skin and dermatology, and then I
Nicole:could read about, you know, herbs from this thing, and then I could work on my assignment.
Nicole:And I just, like, loved that freedom, and it really suited me.
Nicole:But I do know that that really doesn't suit other people and other graduates are just a
Nicole:bit like, whoa, there's just, like, not enough content here.
Nicole:Like, there's not enough, like, taught stuff.
Nicole:Like, you know, like, they felt like the anatomy, physiology stuff just wasn't there or
Nicole:whatever.
Nicole:But this, again, this is, like, several years
Nicole:ago.
Nicole:So I think things have changed now.
Nicole:Whereas for me, I would have my anatomy and physiology, like, coloring book and textbooks
Nicole:and Davidson's medicine and stuff, and I would just like dive in deep with that.
Nicole:Like, just autonomously.
Nicole:Like, I didn't give a if a tutor was going to look at it or not.
Nicole:So this is what I mean by just like, reflecting on your learning.
Nicole:Style is so important.
Nicole:So for example, we had to do like several assignments.
Nicole:And like, I,
Nicole:like when I worked for Corporate Watch, like, I did a bunch of overtime and like moved my
Nicole:hours around and then used my holiday hours.
Nicole:I mean, I only worked like three days a week
Nicole:with them, but it meant like the whole of the February one year.
Nicole:I just did assignments and I did like eight assignments in a row.
Nicole:And I just got like completely in it with like getting up, studying da da da, writing all the
Nicole:formats.
Nicole:And like,
Nicole:that just worked for me.
Nicole:Like, it worked for me so much.
Nicole:Like, I could go with my energy, I could go with my ****** menstrual cycle.
Nicole:I could go with like, stuff needed in campaigns and prison visits and other things,
Nicole:but still know that as long as I had completed all of these things before I took my clinical
Nicole:exam that I'm okay, you know? And I really loved that things weren't like,
Nicole:marked in the sense that, that they weren't giving.
Nicole:Like, hey, you got an A or you've got like 93 or like, you know, like, I'm an anarchist.
Nicole:Like, I've read a lot about, you know, like, pedigy and free air and popular education and
Nicole:like all of this stuff.
Nicole:And like, I do find like this kind of like grading model, like, quite oppressive.
Nicole:And I'm just not.
Nicole:I'm just not up for it anymore.
Nicole:I'm too old.
Nicole:Like, I'm not.
Nicole:I'm just not in that world.
Nicole:So for me it was like so great that I could
Nicole:submit an assignment.
Nicole:And my tutor Jane, who is like, *******
Nicole:wonderful human, like, super caring,
Nicole:loads of life experience.
Nicole:Like, used to do a lot of stuff with people
Nicole:with different kind of mental health challenges and just had so much herbal
Nicole:knowledge, but so humble.
Nicole:And like, she could just send the assignment back and be like, what about this, this and
Nicole:this? Or like, oh, you've missed this.
Nicole:And then I would like edit it and send it back to her and she'd be like, brilliant and like,
Nicole:I just love that.
Nicole:And like, there was so much flexibility with the clinical hours.
Nicole:So, like, you could do like online clinics with various herbalists and they were just
Nicole:******* amazing.
Nicole:Like, Marie Riley in Ireland, Joe Goodyear in
Nicole:Ireland,
Nicole:Jane as well, Jane Woolworth, who I just mentioned.
Nicole:Like, I just felt like I had found this treasure trust of amazing women with so much
Nicole:knowledge who were actually really down to earth.
Nicole:Like, I remember being in Ireland and going to a clinic with Marie Riley and this patient had
Nicole:come in and they had a bunch of stuff going on.
Nicole:And then Marie was just like, yeah, she's like a single parent.
Nicole:Like she's, she's stressed.
Nicole:Like, of course she's gonna have this, this
Nicole:and this.
Nicole:And it just felt like so refreshing of like
Nicole:someone actually is like acknowledging this kind of like class stuff a bit, you know.
Nicole:So anyway, so yeah, my experience with the plant medicine school was like, really
Nicole:fantastic.
Nicole:Like in the sense of like, I could be really
Nicole:autonomous.
Nicole:I knew the assignments I needed to do the
Nicole:clinical hours were super flexible.
Nicole:Like I said to Jane, like, I don't want to put the people that approaching me for support in
Nicole:like my final months before graduation.
Nicole:Like, I don't want them to be in a room with
Nicole:like 20 students on Zoom, like for people that, you know, had left prison or were on
Nicole:methadone or,
Nicole:you know, whatever.
Nicole:So like I gave her a little bit extra money,
Nicole:like not much, but she, we'd, you know, she would be up for doing like one to one stuff
Nicole:with me.
Nicole:So then I could support someone who had experienced a lot more sort of trauma one to
Nicole:one with Jane there, like observing me for my clinical hours.
Nicole:And I could also use my time in Calais as my field as a field coordinator as also part of
Nicole:my clinical hours.
Nicole:So that was fantastic.
Nicole:And yeah, I just, I just loved the like, freedom and the flexibility.
Nicole:I know, like with any course you do, you're gonna gray up against certain teachers.
Nicole:You're going to be frustrated with certain political worldviews they have.
Nicole:You know, like I'm a white, like cess bisexual woman.
Nicole:Like, I'm not in that class feeling majorly alienated.
Nicole:You know, I mean, like, I don't know how it's felt for the students of color.
Nicole:I mean, I think we only had one person of color in our group in Ireland, for example.
Nicole:So, yeah, I'm just totally talking about my own experiences and I think, yeah, everyone's
Nicole:going to have a different experience and you know, people may have had encounters that have
Nicole:felt problematic or, you know, where they've had to challenge like racism or ableism or,
Nicole:you know, kind of biological determinism around sex and gender and stuff.
Nicole:So yeah, I'm not, I think, like, I'm not walking into a space thinking that everyone's
Nicole:going to be sort of some perfect anarchist and, you know, but I'm walking into a space
Nicole:hoping that they're open to feedback and learning and improving the course and yeah,
Nicole:and I kind of felt like that the Plant Medicine School were in terms of,
Nicole:you know, like Nikki, the main sort of director of the school, like, you know, she
Nicole:got loads of prisoners herbals from me to send to people in prison in Ireland and like was
Nicole:really supportive of that book and that project and like I never felt judged and I
Nicole:loved that.
Nicole:Like I loved that they knew about my history, but they were like welcoming.
Nicole:And after my experiences with with Nim,
Nicole:like it felt so different and I actually felt like they were sort of like comrades, if that
Nicole:makes sense.
Nicole:Like they would make medicine for Calais or
Nicole:donate and share things and like,
Nicole:I don't know, it just felt like more kind of like homely and intimate.
Nicole:But anyway, so that was my experience with the Plant Medicine School.
Nicole:But it's a lot, it's like three and a half thousand hours or something of learning and
Nicole:you know, you have to do at least 500 clinical hours and it's four years and like, yeah, it's
Nicole:a lot of graft,
Nicole:like it's a lot of work.
Nicole:But it was really wonderful for me.
Nicole:So yeah, I'm very, very grateful for them.
Nicole:Okay. And then yeah, I think I'm gonna stop this bit here.
Nicole:So those are the kind of main schools in the sort of England, Wales, Scotland.
Nicole:I'm really sorry if I've forgotten any others and I know that in the so called us there's
Nicole:like a million and one other options.
Nicole:So I'm going to talk about those next in terms
Nicole:of like continuous continual professional development, if that makes sense and kind of
Nicole:ongoing learning.
Nicole:Thanks so much for listening to the Frontline Herbalism podcast.
Nicole:You can find the transcript, the links, all the resources from the
Nicole:show@solidarityapothecary.org podcast.