75 – Case Study #2 Eden – organiser burnout and vicarious trauma

Posted on 4th October 2024

This episode dives into detail exploring a case study on herbal support following trauma. Learn about potential herbal and nutritional options for Eden:

Eden (they/them) has been engaged in grassroots organising very intensely for a long time. They are completely exhausted. They are sleeping 9-11 hours a night now but have been sleeping only a few hours a night for several months/years up until recently. They don’t wake up feeling refreshed. They need four coffees to get through the day. They don’t really have an appetite. They have been vegan for 12 years but don’t really have the energy or enthusiasm to cook any more. They don’t take any medications or supplements. They are feeling increasingly disillusioned and depressed with the horror of the world.

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Transcript
Nicole:

Welcome to the Frontline Herbalism podcast with your host, Nicole Rose from the

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solidarity apothecary.

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This is your place for all things plants and

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liberation.

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Let's get started.

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Hello.

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Welcome back to the Frontline Herbalism

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podcast.

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I hope you had a listen to the first kind of

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PTSD case study, which was about a guy called Tom.

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I don't think I said in the introduction last time, but all of these case studies are kind

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of based on, like, hypothetical people, you know, kind of bringing threads of different

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people I've supported over the years.

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So, yeah, they're not.

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They're not kind of any one, like, real client, if that makes sense, as I want to

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respect people's privacy, I hope.

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Yeah, I hope you find this interesting.

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Just another shameless plug.

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The herbalism PTSD and traumatic stress course

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is still open for enrollment.

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Please don't miss the chance if you're on the

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fence about it.

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And, like, I try and kind of put in all the

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No one turned away for lack of funds.

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know, whether that's joining now and popping in a donation in the future, whether that's

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just given five pounds a month to access it, or whether that's just, you know, accessing it

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for free, because that's kind of where you're at.

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You know, I grew up, you know, with a single mom on income support next to no money.

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Like, she wouldn't have been able to afford some, like, snazzy online course for a couple

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of hundred quid, know? I mean, most online courses, let's be fair,

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are, like, much, much more expensive than this one.

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But I'm just saying that, like, I really don't want anyone who is, like, experiencing

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distress and poverty, you know, who's living on universal credit or disability benefit or,

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you know, which are all, like, mechanisms of really keeping people in poverty.

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Right.

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So, like, I just.

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Yeah, I know it's hard for a lot of people to kind of receive.

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Like, I really struggle with that.

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Like, an amazing person came and helped me in

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my herb shed last weekend, and, yeah, I was like, wow, I really need to, like, get better

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at letting people come and help.

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So, yeah, like, if you need to lean in because

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it feels uncomfortable.

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And I find that people on the lowest incomes

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are the ones that want to pay the most, you know, like, as in they feel frustrated that

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they can't pay, if that makes sense, because they want to reward my sort of labour as,

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like, a working class femme.

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So I love that, and I love everyone's cute

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little messages when they join.

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But I just want to say that, like, yeah, I

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want people to be able to like, receive support and not, you know, I don't want to

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kind of gatekeep this knowledge, if that makes sense.

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If you do have financial resources, that's ******* awesome.

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And, you know, every penny is really welcomed.

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And it's used to kind of COVID my cost of

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living and, you know, and cover all the expenses of the apothecary, pretty much.

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So, excuse me, all the herbal pacts going out to people, whether that's people organizing

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against genocide or sabbing the badgerkal or prisoner family members, people who've, you

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know, lost loved ones in Gaza.

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It's also going towards me being able to do

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kind of one to one clinic work basically free or subsidized, which is kind of paused at the

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moment because of my baby, but yeah, and, you know, helps sustain this podcast, helps get

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the prisoner herbal booked people in prison, and the postage costs are just like eye

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watering at the moment.

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So, yeah, so kind of your contribution is like

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class solidarity in action, if that makes sense.

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Anyway, I hope you get something from this case study.

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If you don't know what all these terms and words mean, it is because they are covered in

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depth in the course.

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So that's why I'm encouraging you to sign up

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if this kind of ****** your interest and you're intrigued.

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Okay, thanks for listening, and yeah, speak soon.

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Bye.

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Okay, so this sort of case study, hypothetical

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person who's kind of based on different people I've seen over the years, it's called Eden.

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They use they, them pronouns.

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Okay, so Eden has been engaged in grassroots

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organizing very intensely for a long time.

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They are completely exhausted.

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They're sleeping nine to 11 hours a night now, but they have been sleeping only a few hours a

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night for several months, years up until recently.

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They don't wake up feeling refreshed.

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They need four coffees to get through the day.

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They don't really have an appetite.

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They have been vegan for twelve years, but

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don't really have the energy or enthusiasm to cook anymore.

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They don't take any medications or supplements.

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They are feeling increasingly disillusioned and depressed with the horror of the world.

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So, yeah, so kind of revisiting the framework that I talked about in the case study of Tom,

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I'm trying to work through like systematically looking at kind of medication and allergies.

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And does that rule out any particular plants? Sleep, nervous system state, digestion,

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nutrition and inflammation.

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Okay.

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Some medications and allergies.

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Straightforward.

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They don't take.

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They don't.

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They're not on any prescribed medications and no kind of known tolerant intolerances or

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allergies.

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Sleep.

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So, yeah, they are only.

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They're sleeping nine to 11 hours a night,

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which kind of.

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Yeah, seems a lot, but yeah, this is kind of

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something I talk about in the herbalism.

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PTSD and traumatic stress course.

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You know, can be really kind of, you know, relating to kind of depleted levels of

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cortisol.

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You know, they've potentially been in that,

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like, fight flight response for such a long time without enough downtime or rest or.

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Or digest kind of parasympathetic time, that they've gone from having extremely high levels

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of cortisol through that kind of chronic stress to potentially quite low levels of

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cortisol and this kind of adrenal insufficiency.

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I wouldn't be able to just kind of pluck that out of the air.

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But I'm just kind of saying that that's like a potential.

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You know, their adrenals might be okay, but they might just be very nervously exhausted

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temporarily.

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But kind of, given their sort of health

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history, like, having been at it for a long time, I would kind of imagine that they're.

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Their system is kind of in that state.

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And, yeah, they've talked about having this,

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like, historical lack of sleep, which is quite critical because you think, oh, nine to 11

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hours, that's fine, you're nice and healthy.

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But actually, they've probably got a very kind

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of severe historical sleep deficit, which is kind of taken its toll on their kind of, you

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know, on their nervous system, on their brain chemistry, on levels of inflammation on their

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gut bacteria.

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Like, all the things are affected by lack of

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sleep, which is why I put sleep the top of my list when I'm working with someone is, you

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know, trying to support them to have a kind of nourishing sleep cycle.

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But because they are getting nine to 11 hours a night and they don't need help falling

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asleep, I'm not going to give them any particular, like, sedatives or anything to get

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them to sleep, if that makes sense.

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And we're going to address this kind of

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feeling of not waking up refreshed when we're looking at our kind of nerve tonics.

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Okay, so their nervous system state, they're obviously in this state of kind of nervous

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exhaustion in terms of polyvagal theory.

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They might potentially be in sort of like,

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shutdown, which often correlates with kind of depression.

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So, you know, they could be in, like, actual shutdown or they could be in kind of freeze

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and they're different.

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And we talk about that, the differences of

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those in the course.

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So I won't go into it now, but, you know,

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freeze is a state where you're kind of frozen, but you have a high amount of kind of nervous

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system activity where you're still kind of in fight or flight, but you're frozen, whereas a

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kind of shutdown state means you're more in sort of parasympathetic dominance.

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Yeah, like, you're kind of plain dead, if that makes sense, like an animal would.

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So, yeah, I don't know what's going on for Eden, but either way, they're kind of in this

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intense kind of exhausted state.

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I've talked about their adrenals already, but

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this kind of, like, hpa axis, which I talk about in the course a lot, the hypothalamic,

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pituitary, adrenal axis is kind of our body's way of communicating, triggering different

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stress hormones in the kind of response to danger and cues to our nervous system.

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Like, if this kind of response in the body is so relentlessly activated, then it's going to

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lead to kind of depletion long term.

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Okay, so kind of herbal actions needed here.

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We're going to be really thinking about nerve tonics.

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So I'm going to be thinking about herbs that are going to sort of support them, recover

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from this state of exhaustion and recover from this fatigue.

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And, yeah, kind of help potentially repair, like, this kind of depleted system.

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I might also be thinking about kind of stimulating nervines.

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And in the course, I talk about how stimulating nerve irons are not stimulants.

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It's not like, hey, I'm really depressed and shut down.

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I'll just, like, bash a load of, like, matcha or something.

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It's like, how can we work with herbs that are a bit more stimulating in terms of, like,

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circulatory stimulants or cerebral stimulants, you know, getting blood flow to the brain that

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are more like uplifting and strengthening and warming.

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How can we work with them appropriately rather than putting more pressure on extremely

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depleted systems with stimulants? So, yeah, I'm going to talk about a couple of

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stimulating nerve ions in that respect.

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Okay, so, yeah, nerve tonics.

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Skull cap.

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So I introduced skullcap in the case study for

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Tom.

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So it's like a wonderful nervous system tropho

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restorative, full of B vitamins, contains gutilarian.

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It's really fantastic for kind of neurotransmitters, for myelin sheath for kind

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of all of these structural parts of our nervous system.

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I'm a little bit worried that skolcap is very cooling and Eden is in that kind of cold

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depression state, however, and also they don't need skullcap in the sense that they don't

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need any more sedation.

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However, I do think it's such a fantastic kind

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of nerve tonic that it would be beneficial to still have it.

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And it might mean that their sleep actually becomes a bit more restorative.

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Like, we don't know why their sleep isn't restorative.

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Like, after 9 hours sleep, you should feel much better.

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Right.

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But it's probably because of their system

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being under so much duress.

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So skullcap, for example, might help them

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access deeper levels of sleep and also be kind of working on, like, repairing their systems

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while they sleep.

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So, yeah, I think it's a potential good

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choice.

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I wouldn't suggest it in the daytime because

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of this kind of depressed, low resource kind of state.

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Betany is another herb I talk about in the course.

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So I really like Bettany with kind of like burnt out organizer types because Bettany is

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kind of indicated for, like, stagnant depression, which is like this kind of state

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of like, bitterness and resentment and irritation and, you know, like, if you think

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of that kind of like grumpy manichist who goes to meetings and he's like irritated and tired

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and burnt out and, you know, has had so much stress for decades and alcohol and, like, you

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know, it's just kind of like this, like, yeah, kind of stagnant depression.

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Bettany's, like, fantastic for, like, movement and kind of nourishing the liver.

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So, yeah, I think Betany could be a good ally.

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And I often, like, pair betany with vervain as

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vervain's, like, quite similar.

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I kind of see them as quite similar.

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Obviously they're different, but vervain is like a really amazing tonic for people who are

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just, yeah, just like chronically burn out and just have endured a lot of stress.

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Like, vervain's very kind of nourishing to the nervous system.

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Like, specifically evening primrose is another plant I talk about in the course.

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It could be good, especially because of the essential fatty acid content.

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And, yeah, this again is something I talk about in the course, but especially for

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vegans.

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You know, I'm a long term vegan.

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I've been vegandae 22 years.

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And, yeah, like, there is often a kind of

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deficiency of, like, healthy fats.

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So it's really important that vegans get olive

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oil and nuts and avocados and seeds, you know, like, high fat content.

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But often with vegans, there's often, well, like, with all sorts of people, not just

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vegans, but people without the kind of fatty acid mix.

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Like, can really contribute quite intensely to anxiety, especially if there's, like a kind of

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omega three, omega six kind of discrepancy.

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Um, so, yeah, evening primrose could be really

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good for them.

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Licorice is an option.

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You know, they're not on any medication.

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I don't.

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I like to give licorice as part of blends.

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It's always traditionally been something that

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you include in a mix to help, you know, sweeten it.

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For example, licorice is very sweet, and sweetness is kind of, you know, something that

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our nervous system craves.

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And licorice is really outstanding when it

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comes to this kind of HPA axis support, this kind of adrenal insufficiency in recovering.

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For some people, it can be too stimulating, and for others, it can be too kind of

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moistening.

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But I think with this person, I kind of get

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the impression that they're quite kind of, like, exhausted and burnt out and brittle.

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And again, for that brittleness, we're thinking milky oats.

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Like I mentioned in Tom's case study, milky oats is just fantastic long term nerve tonic.

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Like, so strengthening for the system.

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Yeah.

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Frayed nerves, love.

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It would definitely include milky oats in

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there, but everything I've kind of mentioned has been quite cold and cooling.

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So I would definitely, for someone in this kind of state, want to include some kind of

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warming or, like, uplifting plants.

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So, for example, schisandra is.

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Yeah, kind of warming and nourishing and also, like, strongly indicated for, you know, for

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the HPA access for the adrenals.

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Again, it could potentially be, like, a little

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bit stimulating if they are more in a state of high activation in a freeze response.

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But I think if they're more in this kind of shutdown response, I think Sandra could kind

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of give them that little bit of energy.

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But it's not like a kind of false energy, it's

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not like a ginseng kind of extreme stimulant energy.

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It's like a very kind of nourishing tonic energy.

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I also think St. John's wort like they're nothing taking any medication, so there's no

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kind of risks.

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I think St. John's war is fantastic for people

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who are sort of just a bit gloomy, you know, like they are burnt out at the kind of horrors

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of the world.

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And are a bit joyless.

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Like, I've definitely been in that place a lot where, yeah, everything just feels heavy and

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draining.

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You know, like your whole life is prison

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visits or fighting new prisons or, you know, dealing with, like, caring responsibilities.

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Like, there's no kind of, like, fun or pleasure.

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And St. John's Walt is really kind of uplifting.

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It's kind of got loads of research around it, which I talk about in the course.

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So, like, each plant profile, I kind of try to share clinical studies that I've come across.

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I don't include ones that are, like, animal based trials because of my kind of ethics

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around vivisection, animal testing.

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So I tend to try and just draw on human

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trials.

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And, yeah, there's definitely lots of kind of

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comparative trials between St. John's wort and Prozac, for example, and St. John's wort and

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placebos, and generally been quite effective at that kind of antidepressant action.

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Another kind of uplifting herb might be like tulsi.

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So this can really help with kind of clearing brain fog.

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Very kind of strengthening.

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Also warming and uplifting.

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I think if someone's done a lot of kind of like, intellectual labor, they're quite

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cerebrally exhausted.

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They can't handle another meeting or more

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minutes or more tasks or more responsibilities, I think, but they still need

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to function.

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I think tulsi is great because it helps with

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that focus and concentration, but in a really gentle way, not in a coffee way.

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And it might give them a bit of stimulation that they need.

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Rosemary is similar in terms of a cerebral stimulant and is uplifting.

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Sage.

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I wouldn't give sage long term because it's

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extremely strong.

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But as a short term thing, as part of one

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blend, it might be a kind of good kind of warming herb to include lemon balm is, you

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know, is our kind of gentle relaxant, but it's got this, like, uplifting kind of joyful

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energy.

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Similarly, like, lavender can be a bit cold,

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but it's also kind of uplifting for the kind of spirits and for the mood.

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And, yeah, with kind of Eden's constitution, you're going to be a little bit cautious of

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too many, like, cooling, sedating nerve lines, which is where I think.

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I think some people can go wrong with herbs.

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It's like they feel depressed and stressed,

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and then they end up taking a lot of cooling plants.

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And actually, it's not compatible for them and their constitution.

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If you're like a massive hothead like me, my whole sort of personal materia medico is all

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kind of cooling plants, but I could literally be wearing a strappy top in the winter.

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And someone might have a lot of false heat as well from allergies and inflammation.

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But constitutionally, someone just might be quite warm and really need those cooling

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calming nerve, whereas for other people they're just too cold and these plants are too

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cooling.

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So having these like, warming nerve ions is

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really important.

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And, you know, for things they've experienced

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as well, like nervous system wise, I would just, because I'm an absolute **** for them.

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I would include like rose and hawthorn, for example, for strengthening their systems.

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Like Hawthorn is extremely nourishing for the blood vessels and for the whole system, but

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also just like this kind of.

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Yeah, support for grief.

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Like, I think people think that burnout is from overworking, but it's really from often

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an over feeling.

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Right?

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Like from witnessing too much pain and trauma and suffering that your heart just cannot take

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it anymore.

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So, yeah, I think herbs that help with that

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grief is really important.

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And you can listen to the herbal allies for

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grief episode for a bit more kind of depth and context about those plants.

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All of these herbs I have really extensive profiles for in the course.

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Okay, so digestion, what's going on for Eden? So they're saying that they don't have an

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appetite.

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So something's not working right down there.

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Like it's very, yeah, it's very common for people to not have an appetite when I, they

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haven't had access to this parasympathetic time where their body is kind of signalling to

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have certain enzymes produced that can make them feel hunger.

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You know, people often don't have an appetite when they're kind of dissociated from their

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bodies as well, in terms of trauma.

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So, yeah, we're kind of wanting some kind of

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like gentle bitters that can kind of sort of holistically generate a bit of an appetite to

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kind of signal that they need to eat.

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And the bitters are like really fantastic

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category of plants that kind of help digestion in general.

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So, yeah, I would be thinking like chamomile, for example.

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Bettany and vervain are really lovely gentle bitters.

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You're not going to take them and feel like sick the way you would.

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I don't have a profile of dandelion in the course, but for example, dandelions like a

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really strong bitter.

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And most people, you know, eat the leaves and

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they're like.

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But like, you know, wild food fanatics love

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that bitter taste.

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It's like a really common taste in the plant

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world.

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But yeah, we might be thinking of something a

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little bit more subtle just to help that system go in.

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Yeah, again, you know, everything's like multifunctional.

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Right.

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So Hawthorn is like helping the kind of gut

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lining like rose has like a real like probiotic support option as well.

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So yeah, I would be including those nutritionally, like, I think a little bit

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similar to Tom.

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If they've been in this like, long term state

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of depletion, then I would want to be thinking about like nutritive herbs, like, you know,

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nettles and oat straw, for example, like rose hips and hawthorn berries and elderberries.

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Like, again, just these, like really rich, like, anti, antioxidants to kind of support

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their system.

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And, yeah, as a long term vegan, without

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taking supplements, I would be severely concerned about b twelve deficiency.

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All sorts of people have b twelve deficiencies, not just people who don't eat

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animals.

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So yeah, I would be getting really high

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quality b twelve supplements.

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My personal favorite is the, like, yarrow

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supplements, like J A R, Rhenna.

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I think they're fantastic.

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They go under the tongue.

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They taste delicious.

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I've seen people just completely transform their lives by taking adequate levels of b

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twelve.

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It might be in Eden's case that I would

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recommend for them to get the injection directly into their stomach.

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But yeah, I talk about it in the PTSD course.

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But b twelve deficiencies can cause severe

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anxiety, severe fatigue, muscle pain, bone pain, insomnia.

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Pretty much any, any, like, health symptom could be a b twelve deficiency.

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Yeah, I'd also be thinking about vitamin D.

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Any kind of.

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Anyone that says fatigue, like if you do clinical herbalist training, fatigue is

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actually a red flag.

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Like, it could be something more serious like

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cancer that you'd want to screen.

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But yeah, I would be encouraging them to

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supplement with vitamin D as well.

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Like vitamin D is like a major factor in

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depression.

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Vitamin A, if they're vegan, is also something

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that is difficult to get.

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So potentially supplementing there or just

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like having more brightly colored vegetables and things is really important.

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And also, like, iron is probably.

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I hate to say it like, I'm a proud vegan.

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Do you know what I mean? But it is difficult.

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Like, it's not.

Nicole:

Yeah, I wish.

Nicole:

I wish they could be separated, like, ideologically.

Nicole:

I think veganism is like, incredible.

Nicole:

Like, I think, you know, okay, this is such a,

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like, side note off.

Nicole:

Like, I think it's, you know, like, I *******

Nicole:

despise, like, animals being kept in cages and tortures.

Nicole:

Like, I don't know where I am in terms of people like eating animals, because I think,

Nicole:

obviously indigenous groups have hunted animals and stuff, but they've also had a

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reciprocal relationship with the land base and stuff, whereas, yeah, I think farming is

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completely abhorrent.

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And yeah, I've lived in a cage.

Nicole:

I don't want to subject any other being to that life.

Nicole:

But, yeah, but I think as a diet, it isn't the best.

Nicole:

And I wish we could divorce the nutrition from the propaganda, if that makes sense.

Nicole:

But anyway, side note.

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But, yeah, I would be thinking about iron.

Nicole:

So, you know, maybe you could give Aidan some sort of, like, really delicious, like, iron

Nicole:

tonic, like with a kind of, you know, maybe some burdock like, root decoctions or

Nicole:

something that have, like, fantastic kind of prebiotic and probiotics and full of iron and,

Nicole:

you know, burdock and nettles and rose hips, for example.

Nicole:

Okay, I'm obviously a bit iron deficient because I'm, like, really craving those.

Nicole:

And I've talked about them, but no, I need to get my blood test done again after the baby.

Nicole:

Okay, so inflammation.

Nicole:

So they've obviously said that they have no

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energy.

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They've mentioned depression.

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So often this can be a case of kind of literal brain inflammation.

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So our kind of herbs that might be supportive include chamomile.

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It's very kind of inflammation, kind of modulating.

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Hawthorne, I've mentioned.

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So, again, full of antioxidants, supportive of

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the blood vessels.

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Rose, again, supportive of blood vessels.

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Bettany has this affinity, right, as a kind of getting blood flow to the head.

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Milky oats also offers this kind of cognitive support, as does tulsi and Rosemary and sage,

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like I've mentioned.

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So, yeah, so in terms of eden, like, I think.

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Yeah, like with someone with depression, like, it can be hard to do basic tasks like making a

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decoction or making a strong infused tea, which involves taking this herb and this herb

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and this herb.

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So I'd want something easy and kind of simple

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for them.

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So I would, you know, I would maybe give them

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kind of a more stimulating mix for the morning with our kind of things like schisandra and

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St. John's wort, for example.

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And then maybe something that can kind of,

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even though they don't need help getting to sleep, is going to kind of be nourishing them

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while they sleep, for example, skullcap or bettany or vervain.

Nicole:

And, yeah, I would probably try and stick to just a couple of blends and maybe.

Nicole:

Yeah, maybe like an iron tonic as well, or something really yummy kind of digestion,

Nicole:

nutrition orientated if they had the spoons, some sort of daily nourishing infusion would

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be incredible.

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But if they didn't, then just taking a swig of

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these blends, I think, would really help.

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Yeah.

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And then again, like I mentioned in Tom's case study, the course really talks about all these

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other things that we need to respond to grief, like, beyond plant medicines, like collective

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responses to stress.

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So, you know, maybe Eden needs to, like,

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address their kind of dynamics and their collective and feel more collectively

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supported.

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Maybe they need to, you know, have.

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Have counseling and process some of the kind of vicarious trauma that they've been through,

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for example.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Nicole:

You know, they're feeling kind of disillusioned and depressed.

Nicole:

Like, maybe there's something they can do to help kind of connect with their why.

Nicole:

Right.

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And, you know, sometimes I think it's not

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always like.

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It's like, the type of organizing that we want

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to do.

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So I remember talking to someone who'd been

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really active in kind of climate change and, like, stuff against extreme energy, and they

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were so burnt out from touring and workshops and, like, anything with, like, high levels of

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communication and relationality, they were just, like, broken from it.

Nicole:

And they went on the sea shepherd, for example, like, you know, the project where

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they're kind of sabotaging, like, whale hunts and stuff like that on ships because they

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could literally just be there and chop vegetables and, like, it was easier for them,

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like, brain wise, but they still felt they were, like, contributing to kind of, you know,

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liberation somehow.

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So, yeah, I think kind of, yeah, thinking and

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reflecting on their work is probably really important so that they don't end up in the

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same space and kind of, yeah, drawing on collective support and stuff.

Nicole:

But anyway, that's all in the course, and that's something for them to reflect on.

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I hope this has been useful.

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If you are like, what the hell are all these

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plants? What do these words mean?

Nicole:

I really encourage you to join the herbalism, ptsd and traumatic stress course because

Nicole:

instead of seeing a herbalist, you could know all this stuff yourself and you could make

Nicole:

your own medicine, because I introduced medicine making and all the different options

Nicole:

and how to forage safely and sustainably and all that malarkey.

Nicole:

So, you know, you could turn your whole life around by, you know, drawing on some of these

Nicole:

incredible supports from herbs.

Nicole:

Okay, thanks for listening, and, yeah, don't

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forget that the course isn't open for much longer, so please sign up if you're

Nicole:

interested.

Nicole:

Okay, thanks so much.

Nicole:

Take care.

Nicole:

Thanks so much for listening to the frontline

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Herbalism podcast.

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You can find the transcript, the links, all

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the resources from the show at solidarity apothecary.org.org podcast.